Album Fight U2 SOE vs U2 SOI

​lbum Fight U2 SOE vs. U2 SOI - We've got an incredible #AlbumFight today between U2 and U2. Songs of Experience takes on Songs of Innocence in the #albumfight ring. Our judges today are steeped in U2 expertise. Dr. Timothy Furnish a seasoned judge, dons the tuxedo t-shirt. Plus, Dr. Chris Endrinal and Brian Betteridge from @AtU2 examine the band at the professional level. This is likely our most qualified panel of judges to date.
Our host is Pete A Turner, Executive Producer of the Break It Down Show. Our Pre and Post Fight analysis is offered by Richard Lackie. This fight is co-produced by Damjan and Mike Lipari. As always, offering his art and voice to the fight is Phil Green.
How will these two albums fair? Is it possible that we'll see a draw? Best way to find out is to listen.

Who do you think wins?
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Haiku
U2 fights U2
Reflections of youth and life
Love remains bigger
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Transcription

Pete Turner  0:32  
Everybody welcome back. And as you all know, I'm a big U2 fan. So tonight you two will have a chance to continue with winning streak and you also have its unprecedented undefeated streak shattered because they are facing U2. Yep, that's right. Tonight. It's U2 versus U2 Songs Of Experience versus Songs Of Innocence. These are the most recent U2 albums and when you're going to talk about U2, you have to get judges from atU2 So we have Brian Betteridge and of course, Dr. Chris Endrinal who has been on the show before discussing U2 and has done a previous time hosting, wearing the tuxedo t shirt. And then as always, we have the wonderful and extraordinary Dr. Tim furnish who's a fan of U2 as well. So lots of brainpower lots of U2 love for this U2 on U2 fight. ringside we have fellow album fight producer Michael Lipari sitting there so we'll wave at him. He also is a multi time tuxedo t shirt wearing judge  So Mike, how you doing out there in the crowd. ​

​Joel Manzer  0:00  
Lons rock productions

Unknown Speaker  0:05  
This is Jay Mohr and

Unknown Speaker  0:06  
this is Jordan. Dexter from the

sebastian junger  0:08  
This is Sebastian Junger 

Rick Marotta  0:10  
This is Rick Marotta

stewart copeland  0:10  
This is Stewart Copeland.

Skunk Baxter  0:13  
This is Skunkt Baxter,

Unknown Speaker  0:14  
Gabby Reese, Rob Bell,

Jon Leon Guerrero  0:15  
this is Jon Leon Guerrero

Pete Turner  0:16  
and this is Pete a Turner.

Niko Leon Guerrero  0:26  
And now the break it down show with john Leon Guerrero and Pete a Turner.

Pete Turner  0:32  
Everybody welcome back. And as you all know, I'm a big U2 fan. So tonight you two will have a chance to continue with winning streak and you also have its unprecedented undefeated streak shattered because they are facing U2. Yep, that's right. Tonight. It's U2 versus U2 Songs Of Experience versus Songs Of Innocence. These are the most recent U2 albums and when you're going to talk about U2, you have to get judges from atU2 So we have Brian Betteridge and of course, Dr. Chris Endrinal who has been on the show before discussing U2 and has done a previous time hosting, wearing the tuxedo t shirt. And then as always, we have the wonderful and extraordinary Dr. Tim furnish who's a fan of U2 as well. So lots of brainpower lots of U2 love for this U2 on U2 fight. ringside we have fellow album fight producer Michael Lipari sitting there so we'll wave at him. He also is a multi time tuxedo t shirt wearing judge  So Mike, how you doing out there in the crowd. 

Mike Lipari  1:38  
Big fan of U2 looking forward to seeing If U2 can take down U2. 

Pete A Turner  1:41  
Great. Mike loves out and fights so much. He just likes to sit in on the fights like ringside. So I'm going to give him a shout out he actually helped me produce these now so it's nice to have him over here. So now let's go to Richard for his pre fight analysis. Richard.

Richard Lackie  1:58  
Hey everybody, Richard here. Good to be back. With another album fight and this is an interesting one, U2 versus U2 Songs Of Innocence versus songs have experienced kind of a deep cut fight. These aren't the album's you normally think of. But we have experts that literally wrote the book on U2. So I'm sure they've got a lot to add to this. So I'm not going to provide a whole lot of kind of personal analysis, we're just gonna look straight at the numbers. We did 13 categories for this fight of those innocents took four of them. Experience took five, and there were four ties. So what does that tell me? Well, it tells me that either one of these albums could just kind of win in a landslide, or it could end up very close and it could end up in a split vote. So it really depends on the people analyzing this and the people scoring this kind of where it's going to go. If my gut had to tell me something I would say that they're probably going to lean towards experience and experience is going to win this personal. Personally, I think it is I prefer innocence to the two albums. I like it's kind of fun. Take on the 80s. But I think experience is going to take this. probably somewhere in the lines of eight rounds to five would be my guess. Anyway, that's predictions for this week. This is going to be a fascinating listen. And we'll be back with you guys at the end for the post fight breakdown.

Pete Turner  3:22  
Thank you so much, Richard. All right. Yeah, so it's interesting when he puts the numbers together, we'll see if it holds true on his prediction about U2 beating U2. Now let's go to Phil and have him do the ringside introduction. Phil.

Phil Green  3:38  
This week's album fight is a 13 round matchup of recent songs from a legendary band from Dublin, Ireland, you two in the red red corner with an album that was distributed for free to 500 million people. We have 13 studio album from 2014 Songs Of Innocence. And their opponent in the corner with a collection of letters penned by bond now we have U2 studio album from 2017 Songs Of Experience. Get ready to ramble. Take it away judges.

Pete Turner  4:26  
Perfect. Thank you so much, Phil. Well, I guess we may as well get started anything pre fight from you, Brian, any comments as we get ready to start this fight. 

Brian Betteridge  4:36  
I really am excited to see how this is going to go. I like both albums quite a lot. I really liked Songs Of Innocence when it first came out and when Songs Of Experience first came out, I was a little cool on it and I liked them about equally and I was really kind of surprised to see what my final score was when I went through this. 

Pete Turner  4:56  
Well, we'll get to all of that stuff  in a moment. How about you doc endrinal how was your experience with this fight? 

Chris Endrinal  5:02  
Well you know this fight kind of natural comparison right because Songs Of Experience Songs Of Innocence that the similarity and titles so I was really excited to pit them track by track I to love songs and innocence when it first came out. And I love love love songs have experienced when it first came out. And it was interesting to see how Songs Of Innocence held up over time with Songs Of Experience being newer, so it'll be fun. 

Pete Turner  5:23  
All right. And Tim, how about your pre fight Any thoughts? 

Timothy Furnish  5:28  
Well, I This is strange. I mean, I don't think I've done an album fight one group, I mean, a group against itself. I think we've always done different ones. But I've been on Pete this what the fifth time I think I've been on or something like that. And U2, since the Beatles is my favorite band. So I was a bit torn on this and like, Oh, no, U2 will win that U2 will lose. But since it was the last the last two albums that the group did, it's it's a bit of a challenge. So yeah, looking forward to it. 

Pete Turner  5:51  
Let's go ahead and let's let our newest judge Brian start us off in round one. The miracle of Joey Ramone vs. Love is All we have left, Brian. 

Brian Betteridge  6:02  
Okay, so the big determination for me and comparing these two songs was that I really feel as though the miracle of Joey Ramone, well, it's a really great song. It's just a straightforward rock and roll song. And at this point now, or at least at the time that this album came out, this was the fourth straightforward rock and roll song. We had elevation and then vertigo, get on your boots and the miracle Joey Ramone, and out of those four, the miracle of Joey Ramone is, at best, the third best of those four, so it's something that they've done over and over again. And well, I like to listen to it and I like to hear it live. It just got a little boring. Whereas Love is all we have left. That was the clear winner to me because it's something that they've not really done before. I think bono called it the sci fi Sinatra when the album came out, it's got better lyrics. I really love the two lines. This is no time not to be alive is great and nothing to stop this being the best day ever are, you know, all time great Bono lyrics, the miracle Joey Ramon doesn't have that sort of thing. Even though objectively I think love is all we have left is a little bit of an underwhelming song. It's also something that they've never done before, which makes it the winner because the miracle of Joey Ramone, it's just a rehash so and I really enjoyed comparing the both is also concert openers because Joey Ramone open to the innocence and experience tour and love is all we have left open the experience and innocence tour. I also enjoyed a love is all we have left as a better show opener. So that also gave it a little bit of an edge. So just overall, that's that's the better song. 

Pete A Turner  7:31  
Yeah, it's an excellent knit to pick and I appreciate you doing that. Dr. Chris?

Chris Endrinal  7:36  
 Well, these albums could not have started more differently from my perspective. I love Love, love, the miracle I always have and I think I was well it resonates with me musically, lyrically, and thematically. I think it's a great album opener and it's a great show opener, you know, with with the big O O's I mean it instantly connects with an audience and it draws your attention in from the second you press play, and I personally could not have more disdain for auto tune. I hate  Hate, hate auto tune and I just don't like love is all we have left. I know that I'm in the minority. I do appreciate what Brian said about the lyrics. I think the lyrics and love is all we have left is awesome, but there has to be better ways to achieve a similar or better effect than with auto tune. So perhaps I would have found it more effective as an album closer and pitted against a song that I'd be like in the miracle. There was no contest for me Songs Of Innocence. When's this opening around? 10 nine. 

Pete Turner  8:24  
Fair enough. And Tim, how did you have the first round? 

Timothy Furnish  8:28  
All right miracle of Joey Ramone vs. Love is all we have left. I mean, I like both these songs. I think they're both really good starts to their respective albums. I really like the fuzzy guitar America enjoy remote and something that we probably say a lot here and I'm sure I will feel I want to say is one of the things I really like about U2 is how the edge comes up with different guitar sounds for different styles, different albums, and sometimes within the same song. He comes up with different guitar sounds, which I think is amazing. I really like the backing vocals on Joey Ramone but I really liked was all we have left also It's sort of Sinatra esque. And it's almost apocalyptic way, in a way in a quiet sort of way. But I did wind up getting this job, Joey Ramon  10-9. 

Pete Turner  9:09  
Perfect. Let's go on to round two. Every breaking wave versus lights of home. Chris, why don't you start us off with this round? 

Chris Endrinal  9:19  
Sure thing. My round two comparison kind of sets the tone for a common theme throughout this fight. I really like both of these songs. So this was kind of a tough front to judge everybody wave is it's kind of perfect piece of pop music. Right. But that that's kind of my issue with it. I think it's too perfect. There's an edge to the character of lights of home that's not present in every breaking wave. And it's that quote unquote, less than perfect nature of lights of home and that appeals to me. Everybody wave seems a little too polished, a little too smooth. Like if it plays it too cool. And I think it costs Songs Of Innocence here lights of home musically is extraordinary. What they do with the sense of meter i think is amazing. So this

goes two songs of experience for me 10 nine

Pete Turner  10:02  
well if the PhD is going to talk about amazing and throw out some technical terms, you have to give us a 32nd primer on what the hell you're talking about.

Chris Endrinal  10:11  
Last summer I wrote a little piece for you to that use lots of home and I talked about how you to manipulate the listeners sense of meter so sense of where the strong beat where the weak beat and the lights of home the band kind of plays with that and that's tied directly to the lyrics so it's it's musically interesting to me which which is what give lights gives lights of home the edge?

Pete Turner  10:32  
No thanks for that explanation. I know that'll help all of us scoring at home. Let's go ahead and have Tim go next Tim how's your round two

Timothy Furnish  10:41  
round two lights of home against every breaking wave again to really good songs not a whole lot of drop off from the first if any drop off from the first song and each respective album again lights of home it's sort of inspiration light which I know that a lot of the critics accuse you to have that being sort of their go to mode which of course you know bottle bottle is I was going to say about another song but basically in a bottle likes to throw in Christian references, but not too many. He doesn't want to alienate people, I guess. And this one was interesting lights at home It sounds like something I've heard before from the first time I'd heard it It sounds like something I've heard before which is kind of familiar. I really like the lyrics but they are sort of you know, almost to you to a free yourself to be yourself that first that stands a course I should say. If only you would see yourself and then repeat ad infinitum. Some might say ad nauseum. Every breaking way, great baseline opens it up. One of the best lines I've ever heard from Bono it's hard to listen while you preach, which you know sometimes does seem to make fun of itself. Yeah. But But I gave this I want to give you this every brainwave tend to not all right, perfect.

Pete Turner  11:49  
Thanks, Tim. Brian, round two.

Brian Betteridge  11:52  
Okay, so I'm going to preface this with two things. First, I'm a live U2 guy. That's what I do for at you too. I'm work on all our tourism from and as far as I'm concerned, you too is that their best when they are performing live. And I will also say that this was the first of two tracks where I my initial thought was Hey, this could be a tie and I needed something to break it so I went to live performances for as a way to kind of judge the impact of the song that that the song had on me. I chose every breaking wave over lights of home I mean lights of home is fantastic and to be honest, I actually prefer the the bonus tracks St Peter strings version over the album version on there. But I ended up going with every breaking way because the solo piano version that bottom and the edge played on the innocence experience tour. And also on some of their promotional tours was to me so fantastic that it really brought out the lyrics of the song The basic music of the song I don't typically like when U2 strips their music down like that. And I thought that this was one of the only times that stripping their song down to the basics made it a better song than it was on the album and a better song than it would have been if they play live or as a full band I should say. And to me that just demonstrated that it's a higher quality song It's a better constructed song. And it's the song that if if you were to say to me Hey U2 will play one more song tonight in concert and you can pick every breaking waiver lights of home because of that version I would pick every breaking wave and so I voted for that song 10 tonight

Pete Turner  13:20  
I like your nitpicking man that's good that's perfect.

All right, let's go ahead and go into round three California there is no into love versus

You're the best thing about me. Dr. Tim, kick us off.

Timothy Furnish  13:32  
Well California I was just because it was a special mix I listened to or not but I don't remember the album having starting out with church bells or whatever those bells were but that's that was on the verge and I listened to on amazon music the backing vocals again really good course it's beach boy yes which is not exactly a key revelation in terms of analysis on my part but there it is I thought the lyric then we all fell into the sea which is rather appropriate for what's going on and get a nuisance watch but I don't want to wax too political we're here The best thing about me Here we go again with with Bono excuse me with the edge with with with even a different guitar sound again, as I alluded to earlier, you know, it's a great love song. The bass part is great. I like the drums The lyrics are interesting again, they're not the best thing you've ever done but I do think the song is better than California so I David You're the best thing about me tend to not

Pete Turner  14:22  
great Brian, your round three.

Brian Betteridge  14:25  
I think both of these songs are really evenly matched and that they are kind of cliche airy pop songs, which U2 does a lot of and they do it well and they do it and I always enjoy it but the reason that I went with your The best thing about me Was it just felt catchy or to me and it was the one that when I heard it for the first time that stuck in my head the longest. And I also have to say I don't usually sing along to songs in the car anywhere like that. It's even if it's you two and they and it's my favorite song in the world. I don't usually sing along to it, however, and you're the best thing about me when Bono gets to the line, I'm shooting off my mouth. That's another great thing about me. I absolutely adore that line and I will sing it every time it comes on. I don't know what it is about it it's just jobs and aka catches with me so and I really enjoyed I didn't I haven't been able to hear California there is no end to Love Live in Concert. And I think I heard you the best thing about me a couple times and the acoustic version which unlike every breaking wave was not better than the full band version on the album but it's that catchiness and there's that little guitar break in the middle that the edge does maybe more toward the end right before it gets to the i can i can see I can see you love her loudly when she needs you quietly whatever that is where they get to this really cool new guitar. It's a new guitar sound it's a new kind of thing that they haven't done before and that also kind of put it over the edge so that was a 10 to nine victory for me for your The best thing about me.

Pete Turner  15:49  
And Dr. Chris, what about you?

Chris Endrinal  15:51  
Yeah, you know, I talked about perfect pieces of pop in the previous round with everybody wave and lots of home and we have another one here in round three. You're the best thing about me is to years of songs of experiences every breaking wave, but it's not quite as on the nose as every breaking wave is to me when Banos lyrics present the question why am I walking away that allows for a lot of interpretive leeway. And I love that about Banos songwriting, when his songwriting is not on the nose when it when it allows you to interpret it from several different perspectives. That gets my juices flowing. And you know it that for me distinguishes you the best thing about me from the perfect populace of every breaking wave California is a fine song. I do love the lyrics of the chorus, there is no end to love. I sing along with it every time I'm in the car, or every time it comes on shuffle. But California is never a song that I seek out. It's it's number one that I'm that I'm like, you know what, I haven't heard all California, but you're the best thing about me has been on my playlist. Since Songs Of Experience came out like that. It's like, like Brian said, so catchy that it easily wins this round for me.

Pete Turner  16:55  
I just want to take a quick timeout and ask Chris, you said it was a little the nose California there is new into love. And Dr. Tim also noted on the nose this of the Beach Boys aspect which it's inspired by. So yeah, can you describe how they get a little less on the nose with that song? Because I think we all kind of felt the same thing. In general, the judges did not care for the song with only one of the copy box judges going that direction.

Chris Endrinal  17:20  
The subject of it is about the first time the band went to California. Right. So it's it's it's very straightforward. It's it's about you know, the blood orange sunset, right. And it's about the feeling of California because there is no other place in the world like California and from, you know, when for teenagers from Dublin, where it's grey and rainy half of the year, go to California for the first time, it's going to be a revelation. But lyrically for me, it doesn't really stray from that. And that's totally fine for a song to do. But you're the best thing about me as a pop song. But it's a love song. But what exactly is he singing about? Because you can interpret that, you know, it's about alley or it's about some of the friend or it can be about different things. California is about California period.

Pete Turner  18:02  
Yeah. Okay, fair enough. Let's keep moving round for

song for someone versus get out of your own way. And we're going

to have Chris, start us off.

Chris Endrinal  18:12  
All right, get out of your own way connected with me instantly. I even went back in my Facebook feed and looked at it from 2007 because I remember I posted about it when U2 was releasing different tracks from songs and experience leading up to its December, release date. And I talked about the songs beautiful day ask quality and how the songs message kind of sucker punched me, I established a personal connection with get up your own way, instantly. And Bono has mentioned that it's a song, you know that he would he would sing to his daughters and I have, I have daughters and I have a son. And it's exactly what I sing to them every night. You know, it's your fight, I will help you but it's your fight. But that's not to say that I don't have a personal connection with song for someone because I do if you recall, the band put out a call for fans to submit videos of them singing song for someone. So I I sang that song to my to my son months for months and months and months. But for me, the universality and the contemporary message of get out of your own way helps it take the ground. So I give it 10 nine Songs Of Experience.

Pete Turner  19:09  
Fair enough, Brian,

Brian Betteridge  19:11  
so I like song for someone. I think it's it's like a perfect you to song it. But it always kind of bugged me a little bit that it seemed a little too perfectly constructed. And a little too perfectly you to eat, for lack of a better term. But get out of your own way. Really like like Chris said. Chris said two things that I really liked. First, he said that it struck him immediately, which is certainly true. For me the first time I heard it, I was just like, wow, this is incredible. But I'd also agree with what he said about it having a certain beautiful day sort of feel to it. And beautiful day is a fantastic song. So anything that's reminiscent of that is going to be really good for me. But it also is just like you're the best thing about me, it's very catchy. And I find myself kind of really following along with the melody of it, and especially the chorus. It's a great chorus. And it's it's part of like that 123 punch in the middle of the album where they just have three really catchy songs one after the other on Songs Of Experience that I get really excited when I get to that part of the album and get a get out of your own way is kind of like the centerpiece of that passage of music on Songs Of Experience. So for that reason I go to for that 110 to 910 to

Timothy Furnish  20:20  
nine and Tim song for someone is a lovely acoustic piece. You know, it's planted, it's hopeful. I really like one of the best lines again and this one in any U2 song for me is Christian is it's a long way from here to Calgary. I really liked that line. Again, I like the fact that Bono in the edge will talk about the Christianity but they don't beat you over the head with it. I appreciate that. I think the vocals are exquisite. But get out of your way I do wind up giving this to get out of your own way 10 to nine although I really tried hard not to and that's because of that stupid over the top political video. I mean, I don't bottle really believes his problem bashing stuff, or he thinks he just feel he feels like he has to do that. I don't know it's kind of annoying. I mean, but what's really good about the song is as you guys have pointed out, it's a really catchy tune it is a good song. I have never heard a song and I give kudos to people when they come up with terms that I've never heard before. amorous AMRISD Okay, gotta give kudos to bottle for coming up for that that I've never heard that before. I love it. vocals are really good. And you know I have two teenage sons I can help you but it's your fight your fight you know so I appreciate that. And you know, I know just wouldn't hit me over the head with the political stuff I would like better and I still gave it to this one I tend to not all right well let's move on into round five. I will be close vs American soul.

Pete Turner  21:47  
Brian start us off.

Brian Betteridge  21:49  
Okay, this is another round where I use the live experience of hearing both of these songs the past couple years to kind of help sway my decision. I love Iris it's a great song The at the end about Iris playing on the sand is is some of our some of Bob's best lyrics and his most personal lyrics and just really well done however American soul When you see that live there's it's I think the way to certainly described it to my one of my friends at the time was it'sU2's most dumping stomper of a live song. The big American flag that they had up behind them was fantastic. And you just like I felt it in my chest that every time that they like hit every drum that Larry hit every bass note you just kind of feel it hit you. And it made that song so much better. I also like Kendrick Omar's bit in the beginning I think it's a really nice combination nice. It really complements the song a lot. So for that reason I went with American soul tend to not

Pete Turner  22:45  
fantastic Tim.

Timothy Furnish  22:47  
These are probably my least two favorite songs on these respective albums. I know I'm supposed to like Iris because it's fun Oh singing about his departed mother died when he was 14. But it sounds to me like something off how to mandolin atomic bomb, which I think which is one of my least favorite U2 albums. So I'm just not particularly fond of it. Again, I appreciate that. He's opening up a bit with the lyrics which is not something U2's known for doing and it's a decent song American soul see I'm just the opposite of what you just said. I do not like that sort of like contrived rap beginning it's like you to do you're my age Okay, bottom and I are the same age if you're pulling in a rapper to rap at the beginning of the song you're just trying too hard. Okay, that's just not you. All right, I just didn't like it that much. The bass lines great. The guitar lines great. And I think American soul is basically U2 going oh look we haven't written a rocker and a wireless flight or rock or CI everybody likes it just unconnected me that will not so I didn't really like the songs very much but I gave it to Iris tendinitis. Sounds good

Pete Turner  23:49  
Chris. does it connect with you?

Chris Endrinal  23:51  
Yeah, it did actually. I first heard the song I was in grace Australia when the song dropped on iTunes I was over there presenting a paper at at at theory conference and I woke up it was the morning of my presentation and you know I looked at my phone was like oh my god you just a new song out Oh my God. And so I listened to it on repeat and I I like American soul. I love the political nature of it. I love that U2 never shied away from political songs. This round was so interesting to me because both songs automatically are very straightforward, right? I mean, Iris is about as mother and American soul is. Well it's about extreme nationalism. Right American soul is songs of songs of experiences bullet the blue sky, it's not quite as iconic as bullet but American soul does its job and it doesn't well it's a brash in your face, no holds barred criticism of extreme nationalism. And that comes into play, especially using Kendrick Lamar. I love the fact that that that U2 brings in arguably the best rapper right now. Right? It's a way for this older band to connect to a brand new audience. And it's of course of a political move and I love it. I usually favor more subtle lyrics but the message is loud and clear. Iris, it's a touchscreen two bottles mother I love Adams playing. This is the tough one. I initially had it going for Iris and if you ask me tomorrow, I might give it to Iris but today it goes 10 nine to American soul. Wow. Okay, interesting.

Pete Turner  25:12  
Oh, well let's go ahead and get into round

six. volcano versus Summer of Love Tim start us off.

Timothy Furnish  25:20  
Okay, no to me I mean I like it in some ways but to me it's get on your boots Rida in some ways I like it. But again, it's just I don't think that it particularly stands out as you to saw again to me not to repeat myself, but I will. That sounds again like something off how to dismantle atomic bomb, which I didn't take the like that out. Summer of Love. It's just got an incredible baseline. I love Manas lyrics on this. And I think that interestingly enough, although I think we all liked every breaking wave I really think that this song is even more sort of West Coast the to me, but few times I've been to the west coast out there this morning is evocative of the West Coast me that even every freaking way so I really like some love, so I gave it to that Teddy. Bear enough,

Pete Turner  26:04  
Chris, how did you have it?

Chris Endrinal  26:05  
Oh, man. Oh, where to start a volcano. I wanted to like the volcano so much. But I don't like this song at all. It is my least favorite song on Songs Of Innocence. It's such a letdown for me. I mean, the chorus is such a lyrical disappointment. You're living on a piece of ground above the volcano. I mean, Bano. You're so much better as a lyricist. But you know, and the line You and I are rock and roll is such a non sequitur, it comes out of nowhere and I get it, I guess. But it was used so much better on that line. You and I are rock and roll. But it was so much better on in American soul Summer of Love. It's much more musically interesting to me than volcano. And the fact that Summer of Love. It's a political song again, but it's misleading because it's got a gentle sound, right? It's a down tempo song. So coming from American soul, that huge contrast in musicality might lead the listener to think, Oh, this is not talking about the same thing. But it's talking about the exact same thing from a completely different perspective. And that's why I love it. It's really this one goes easily. Two Songs Of Experience. In fact, Songs Of Innocence gets knocked down here. 10, eight.

Pete Turner  27:09  
U2 puts you two on their need. Let me ask you real quick question about that Summer of Love to me sounds a little what's going on ish? With that kind of I'll call it a overprocessed prosthetic that sound like Marvin Gaye has and what's going on? Where's that kind of, you know, talking about?

Chris Endrinal  27:26  
Yeah, Yeah, I do. I do. I mean, it's not a perfect song by any means. I think it could be better. But compared to volcano, I mean, volcano for me is not good.

Pete Turner  27:36  
It's interesting because the copy box judges universally disagree with you. And Tim, let's see what Brian has for this round, Brian.

Brian Betteridge  27:44  
Okay, I don't hate volcano. I did end up agreeing with Chris in the end. And I did give it an eight for this. So that was also a knockdown for me.

Jon Leon Guerrero  27:52  
I think that

Brian Betteridge  27:54  
this is because of some elements of volcano having been recycled in American soul and American soul doing so much better that it made volcano. Worse, in hindsight, I think if American soul didn't exist, and we were doing this, I think volcano still would have lost but it would have been a little closer. You know, almost This reminds me of when U2 released that medium rare and remastered band club album and they had Xanax and wine and all those songs that very clearly became other songs like it wasn't Xanax and wine eventually became vertigo or something like I don't remember exactly which one it is but you could hear it so I hear a volcano and I just hear an early version of American soul that's half finished and I don't really like that and so that was why I gave that an A but Summer of Love is fantastic I love the the more blatant political message there it's almost makes it a modern day Sunday Bloody Sunday for me but less obvious and more subtle because Sunday Bloody Sunday was always really upfront about its you know how political it was. Whereas Summer of Love kind of hides that a little bit. But also the guitar riff that edge has in the very beginning of this song is incredible. It's one of his best little bit RX ever and I know there's some question as to whether or not so you to refer came from one Republic, or Ryan Tedder more specifically, honestly, I don't care. It's a fantastic riff and it really makes the song and it's, it's, I really want to learn how to play it on guitar myself, but it's really tough and my fingers don't quite go that way. But one day, my goal was to learn how to play that. But all those things together Summer of Love definitely beats volcano 10 day.

Pete Turner  29:23  
One of the things we've learned about few album fights is that right around round seven, we call it the Burford round. And at least in the older sense of albums, the bands kind of get tired and they start to put out stuff that's more closer to filler. So we're hitting the Burford ground, but we still have six more rounds to go after. So this is truly the midway point. So let's get started and go

round seven raised by wolves versus

Red Flag Day. Jesus Christ. That's a tough one. Let's have Chris start us off.

Chris Endrinal  29:52  
This was a tough one. Indeed. This is the closest round in my fight. I mean, I easily Well, not easily but i i was saying have to tie it but I know we don't do that. So I love both the song.

Timothy Furnish  30:03  
The Pete doesn't like it.

Pete Turner  30:05  
That's right, then you get called the coward.

Chris Endrinal  30:08  
You know, typically both of these songs raised by wolves and red flag they are important songs, right? Because they're talking about monumental events. I love raised by wolves when I first heard it and then I went to the U2 conference last year and I heard Andy Rowan describing his accounts of being there. The day that that bomb went off and passing around a piece of metal shrapnel was found on the street. Wow. And you know, like the whole room was in tears and we were just like was an amazing story. You know, it was harrowing it was touching it was maddening was heartbreaking. But this one came down to the music for me and I love the music and raised by wolves but Red Flag Day again what what what the band does with the meter and how it links with the lyrics and how they slip into halftime and then they don't and then they go back to the regular time the mix in Red Flag Day is also tighter she needs something about the mixing raised by world especially in the course it sounds a little empty to me so I the slide is margins 10 nine red flag that

Pete Turner  31:03  
there's some realism and raised by wolves like even the registration number of the car is a lyric I'm not sure if anybody really ever putting an actual license plate number into a song before but it does add to that visceral thing. And the Red Flag Day is I think even 20 bottles favorite song So yeah, very, very close round. Let's have Brian give his round.

Brian Betteridge  31:23  
Okay, raised by wolves is a great song. Red Flag Day is a great song. This was another one that was really tough for me. Ultimately, what I kind of defaulted to was I felt as though raised by wolves was kind of going back to the Well again, it was something topic that they've already written about. It was something that they have talked about all throughout their careers. And going back to that was, you know, it just kind of seemed like well, you guys probably could have done something different. And you could have picked a different thing to write about that you haven't already written about and haven't already talked about ad nauseum for your entire careers. And I think actually Red Flag Day Ironically, the ironic that they're matched up, because that's kind of the song that does that. It does kind of tackle more modern things. It's something new that they haven't done it also is a new sound to kind of like Summer of Love. It's it has a bit of a tone and a sound that they don't typically have on their albums. It also is catchy. I think I can say that about many of the songs and songs have experienced that they have a catchiness that sticks in my head in a way that Songs Of Innocence does not in any other U2 album does not as well. And it's kind of weird for a song like Red Flag Day to feel so catchy because it's kind of a sneaky song because it sounds upbeat. And the first time I heard it, I paid more just more attention to the music and less than the lyrics. And I was like, Hey, this is fun. And then I listened to the lyrics and more. And I'm like, this is not so fun. I actually I like that because it's it's not what it seems on the surface. And I think it's something that U2 does really, really well is that they have a lot of songs that it's may sound like one thing and if you look at it deeper, it means an entirely different thing. And because of that, I want to Red Flag Day 10 to nine.

Pete Turner  32:58  
That sounds great. Tim has you have the

Timothy Furnish  33:00  
round. Not to be contrary But see, My take is the exact opposite. It's interesting, the two reasonably intelligent people least I'm talking about myself, you're probably more intelligent, can come to separate, totally separate different decision on this. I think Red Flag Day sounds like stuff they've done before. It sounds like war, it sounds like October. And I find it a bit pretentious for Mondo and the edge to hang out at Marcee or wherever they were hanging out, reflecting on the fact that Oh, the Mediterranean also leaks up a Syria. So we're going to write about Syria, like they know a damn thing about Syria. Whereas they know about what happened in the troubles. All right, and what nobody mentioned, Joe, but it's those incredible backing vocals on raised by wolves. I've never heard anything like that. I mean, that was to me very, very innovative for you too. And I don't think you've given them credit for that. So I think that was just amazing. And yes, they've talked about the troubles before but I think they were more brutally honest about it. I mean, you know, Sunday morning Sunday is kind of generic compared to this maybe generics not the right word kind of kind of nonspecific, I should say, generalize. This is very specific about things like Pete Turner talked about with with with a license plate such. So I looked at both good songs. But I think that with the innovative lyrics in the music and raised by wolves, I just think it's a better song. So I gave it to that tend to not.

Pete Turner  34:16  
That sounds great. Well, we're halfway. I'm going to turn this over to our ringside reporter, Michael Perry and see if he's got a question for us, Mike.

Mike Lipari  34:24  
So I'm seeing you two is a little bruised up by U2 right now, but both fighters still seem to be hanging in there based on my quick look at the scorecards halfway through it looks to me like experiences off to a bit of a lead over innocence. In fact, two judges are giving it to experience halfway through one judge fairly eking out innocence so I'm going to start with Chris What do you think now at the halfway point how do you think experience has taken it to innocence so far and what is innocence need to do to come back?

Chris Endrinal  34:57  
Well my scorecard right now has experience kind of pulling out ahead of innocence innocence needs to come back you know the need to get some Moxie here and come back soon or else this could get out of hand in the hurry.

Unknown Speaker  35:10  
Brian same question. What does the innocence need to do now to come back from a deficit here? I feel

Brian Betteridge  35:16  
like innocence has a little bit of a lull in the middle there and it's going to need to come back out swinging and really putting as much energy into it as it can because I think what's really pushing songs have experienced ahead of songs that have been a sense is that has an energy to it that isn't doesn't have and innocence is going to fall even further behind if it can't pick up the pace a

Unknown Speaker  35:35  
little bit. Cool. Tim, you are the contrarian here giving innocence a very slim one point lead after seven rounds. How is your assessment a little different from the other judges? And what do you think innocence needs to do to bridge the gap and win the

Timothy Furnish  35:52  
fight? I think the innocence needs to probably have another Guinness and see if for the other album is smoking cigarettes and it could pass it

Pete Turner  36:03  
perfect. Well let's go ahead and get back in it then round

eight.

cedar wood road versus the showman little more better. I'm gonna have Brian start us off Brian.

Brian Betteridge  36:14  
Okay, so I know I've talked a lot about catchy songs and the show man little more better does have a really catchy chorus with you look so good. Little more better. I like that. I have to say though, that is the only thing I like about that song. The rest of it sounds bland and uninspired to me. I really appreciate Banos show man persona that he had on the experience innocence tour and I understand that that persona came out of this this song even before it kind of transitioned into manifesto later in the show. But there's nothing there for me it's just as boring and I do not like it whereas cedar wood road that sounds fantastic. I understand it I'm going to go against what I said last round and that yes they are kind of going back to the well with their their childhood again, but this song really does it the edges. Guitar work is so low in the middle there is incredible. I like the chorus I like the way it's constructed. It sounds so good live and it's it really stands out from like their live set. And I'm really glad that they brought it back from their last tour to that was really very, very happy when I got to see them the one time and I was right up front right up in front of the edge. And he was right there when he was doing that amazing guitar. So that may be one of my favorite guitar solos out of him that I've ever heard which is kind of weird because it's so simple. But this was my second knockdown round Oh the the fight here cedar wood road defeated the show, man 10 to eight.

Pete Turner  37:36  
Wow, Tim, do you have you to on an EL I'm

Timothy Furnish  37:41  
gonna make up for that because mine's the exact opposite. I got the show men tend to eight on this one. I think the showman is one of their best songs because bottle is just so out there with his lyrics. He's just like, Hey, this is what I do. There's a level of shallow you just can't fake What a great line. The showman gives you front row to his heart. He prays as hard as the charts. Then what's the other line? I got just enough low self esteem to get me where I want to go. I mean this stuff is just either he's brutally honest, or he's brutally making fun of himself. But either way, I just think those lyrics are just top notch. But baseline is great. The acoustic guitar is great. This is one of my favorite U2 songs. cedar wood road. Yes, I agree. That's a good guitar part in there. But again, this sounds like something they left off no line on the horizon, which I just don't think it's that great a song that guitar admittedly good guitar part and cedar wood road just kind of say that song. And it has just clunky lyrics symbols and it's like, oh, let's try to be real U2 with our lyrics. Symbols clashing Bibles. smashing. does that even mean? All right, the show man again? 10 to eight on this.

Pete Turner  38:46  
Chris did Tim get up and go to the bathroom or something? Chris, what do you think about this round?

Chris Endrinal  38:50  
Wow. I'm a little more in the middle. I guess. For me Songs Of Innocence bounces back here in round a cedar wood road I think is one of the best songs on either album. It is so carry terrifically U2 in every single way. Listen to the sound of the guitar. No one sounds like that except the edge. Listen to the lyrics. I think Bible symbols crashing Bibles smashing that line is U2 in a nutshell. That line right there. It's that's a brilliant rhyme. It's a brilliant lyric. The topic of Songs Of Innocence was where did you to start? And this is about the street that they grew up on. I mean, it's perfect the showman? I appreciate it. I don't understand all the negativity toward it. For me. It's a moment of levity, a moment of self deprecation of honesty on what is a pretty thematically heavy record on Songs Of Experience. I'll go so far as even say that I like the song. But for me cedar wood road is too good. It's to U2 to beat here Songs Of Innocence needed a bounce back in a big way. And they got one so soI 10 nine here.

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Chris Endrinal  40:20  
I don't understand all the negativity toward it. For me. It's a moment of levity, a moment of self deprecation of honesty on what is a pretty thematically heavy record on Songs Of Experience. I'll go so far as to even say that I like the song. But for me cedar wood road is too good is to U2 to beat here. Songs Of Innocence needed a bounce back in a big way. And they got one so soI 10 nine here.

Pete Turner  40:41  
Nice. All right, well, let's go under round nine. sleep like a baby tonight versus the little things that give you away

Timothy Furnish  40:49  
to sleep like a baby tonight is sort of deceptively appealing. You know, it's very, I think Leonard asked, I mean, it sounds almost sounds like he's singing like john lennon there toward the beginning. In fact, the whole construction, the sort of Sergeant Pepper ask, I was reading some about and it's supposedly some there's some interpretation that it's about a pedophile priest who was doing nasty things, but then you know, could sleep at night about it. So that kind of covers it for me our guests, but the little things that give you away like I don't think either one of the songs is that good. But musically I like the two. I like the vocals better on that one. So I gave it a little things tend to not

Pete Turner  41:27  
Chris,

Chris Endrinal  41:28  
how did you have it? Oh, I could not be more different. This one was a lot closer to that originally anticipated and I'll get to that in just a second. I like sleep like a baby tonight. The lyrics and the music. You know, it's a scathing rebuke on the church, and I think it's brilliant. I was a little sad to hear bottles falsetto because it's not quite as crystal clear as it was early in his career. But the imperfect nature of his falsetto on this song fits the song so it works here but there's no way sleep like a baby night even comes close to little things in my not so humble opinion little things is one of U2's top 10 best songs was ever in their catalog. It is that good. Wow it's so interesting lyrically it's interesting fanatically. It's interesting musically, texturally formally it's it's been all talking to themselves but not old bottle talking to young bond with young bottle talking old Bono at first Who does that? Who in their late 50s assumes his 20 year old self and talks to his old self no one but Bono does right it's a brilliantly executed that that big build at the end when bundle keep singing sometimes is arguably U2's best two and a half minutes. If not the best then it's that it's top three in my book this is this is an easy 10 eight round move.

Pete Turner  42:43  
Wow. Holy cow knocked down. Holy cow Brian, how did you have

Brian Betteridge  42:48  
it now I swear and promise that Chris and I did not talk about this beforehand. But I'm going to say almost exactly the same thing that he said sleep like a baby tonight. It's a fine song. I appreciate it the magically I appreciate everything that's there. If it was if it wasn't going up against little things that give you away I would have better things to say about it but in the grand scheme it's an average you to song It's fine. I like it. But the little things that give you away it really is incredible. And I going back to what Chris said it's right from that sometimes part like I always felt like the first half of little things that give you away It's good. It's not blow you away good. It's like a good solid U2 thing and then they just get to sometimes I can't believe my existence and then the edge does that amazing guitar thing that I don't know what in the world that is. And Larry's got those the symbols going in the background Banos doing the sometimes over and over and over again, that like Chris said, like he said, it may be the best two and a half minutes of their career and I can't disagree with that. They just basically took everything that U2 does really well. And they smashed it all together into half a song and put it there and it's just it's amazing. So that's another knock down around for me too. That's 10 to eight little things that give you away.

Pete Turner  44:00  
Wow, holy cow. Lots of knockdowns. Okay.

Well let's move into round 10

this is where you can reach me now. Versus landlady. Chris, start us off.

Chris Endrinal  44:13  
Yeah, this was pretty close to me. I like and appreciate both of these songs. This is where you can reach me now is perhaps one of the band's most underrated and underappreciated recent songs. No one ever talks about the song but musically It's really good. But let me stop with landlady. I actually love Banos tribute to Alice in Langley. I love how much Bono loves Alli. And I love how much he is unafraid to profess his love for his wife. Because I'm the same thing. My wife is the best thing about me. And you know if I could write a song about her that I told you what I think of my own wife whenever I hear landlady, but this is where you can reach me now is musically brilliant. I mean, there's a clash between bottles, melody and what the chords do, yes, or most of the song, but then that clash is resolved in the bridge. And if you listen to what the theme of the song, it's basically a song about identity and doing your duty versus doing what you feel is right. And that resolution that happens in the bridge is so subtle, but it is perfect. It's a perfectly simple reflection of the defiance portrayed in the lyrics. That's what wins this round four Songs Of Innocence. 10 nine.

Pete Turner  45:15  
Brian, how did you have it?

Brian Betteridge  45:17  
This was pretty close to a tie for me at first, just because I like them both. They're both fine. I don't feel very strongly one way or the other. I think I just kind of went the tiebreaker for me was just my enjoyment of the song when I listened to it landlady to me is it's a common soothing song. I like the sentiment that's in it. I like some of the musical touches that are in there that you're not going to hear on other U2 songs. I really like the little breakdown at the end that the lyrical breakdown that Banos it's it's just more pleasing to Me. I like this is where you can reach me now. But it just it doesn't stick out in quite that way. It's it's a good song, but it doesn't, I'm not going to remember it. When I listened to it. I'm like, Oh, hey, this is a great song. And then the next couple songs Come on, and I forget about it, and it's gone. But I could also say that about landlady to to a certain degree, neither one of those songs stand out to me, neither one of them are going to be you two songs that I reach for again and again in the future. And when I'm listening to these albums again next week or the week after, or whenever I'm not going to be paying all that much attention to them because they're just they're not there for me but I did give landlady that tend to nine edge just because of that kind of relaxing, calming emotion that I get out of it when I listened to it, Tim

Timothy Furnish  46:28  
Yeah, neither one of the songs is you know, the where the streets have no name or or God Part Two or any of about 50 better U2 songs. Other Okay, landlady. Yes, again, I appreciate the fact that he's a rock star who stays married to the same person and expresses his appreciation for her that is rather refreshing in the rock field is not good. I like lyrics. Like when I'm losing ground, she gives it back to me. And so it's a nice song. But I do like this is where you can reach me now a bit more. I love the guitar part of that song. What I did like was that sort of forgiveness planet synthesizer that was sticking its way through there. I could have done without that I kept waiting for a robot to show up. was a robots name and Forbidden Planet. I was right. Anyway. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, he was in a lot of other movies too. But I mean, there was that weird synthesizer thing and I'm like, okay, and yes, I know it's dedicated to the clash and and it's trying to be political and again, look, I appreciate the fact that bands of the political but sometimes you try too hard and sometimes kind of force it in where you don't need it. That said, the guitar part makes us a better song than landlady. So I David to this is where you can reach me now tend to not

Pete Turner  47:36  
Yeah, perfect. Chris, you talked about the clash in the song structure. Dr. Tim just mentioned the fact that it was inspired by the clash is that purposeful in bottles part?

Chris Endrinal  47:47  
You know, artist intent is something that I talked about in my classes all the time, because you know, I I'm teaching my students how to, how to listen and to how to analyze and how to interpret music. So if bottle meant it all. If you didn't, it doesn't really matter because we have made the connection so the connection is there if you meant it or not, it doesn't matter. Does not matter.

Pete Turner  48:09  
Well, let's find out things matter here in round 11. The troubles going back to Ireland again, versus have a blackout. And let's have Brian start us off Brian. I like

Brian Betteridge  48:20  
the troubles it has a good groove to it. I like Adams base work on it. I don't like the lyrics quite so much. They just kind of seem like something that bottles done a bunch of times before, but it's a really good song, but it going up against the blackout. I love the blackout. I'm a big fan of Anita Franco and she has a live album and one of her live albums I don't remember which one she talks about how all songs have a moment where they're like a roller coaster, and you get up to the top of your first Hill and it just kind of goes over and it's like a hey there we go moment and where the song you know goes down the hill and it's off to the races. The blackout has a fantastic moment like that at the end where all the tension is building up and I kind of I think about in terms of that really great video that they recorded in Amsterdam when they released this song as a single the part where Bano starts crowd surfing and you know it builds up to this big crescendo in the edge and and Adam are doing this this really great kind of hard rock groove there and then there's that weird pulsing synthesizer types down in the background I don't even know what makes that sound but the way that all build build up to it that was the roller coaster moment and that song and it executed so perfectly. I love it this the blackout is is one of my favorite songs on the album purely from an enjoyment standpoint. I loved hearing it live I love hearing on the album. I still watch that video for the same reason. So this was an easy 110 to nine and it wasn't a knock down though because the troubles really is a good song. I just think the blackout had so much more going for it.

Pete Turner  49:47  
All right, Tim

Timothy Furnish  49:49  
Troubles has this trouble, which is not his fault, which is that you remember when it came out that used it as a teaser for that season of The Walking Dead boy back when I was still watching The Walking Dead it's so I'm kind of my opinion of is sort of colored by that which again is unfair to the song but there it is. It's a wistful song. In fact, it's like it's depressing to me and who's the gal that sings vocals? I cannot pronounce me like easily I don't know see I'm so out of touch. I don't know who she is. I had to look her up. I mean the vocals are really interesting but again the lyrics is been said not something that haven't had hasn't been done by U2 before and it's it's sort of depressing. The blackout is pretty raucous and it rocks pretty well. Again Look guys, I you seem to love everything that U2 does political but sometimes again, it's just for me Look, this bottle really believed a mock democracy is flat on its back jack will give me an effing break. Nothing's flat out spragg. I'm pretty sure Trump won the election. It's called the electoral college. I just get tired of this sometimes. You know I don't really think even believes that. I think he thinks he has to say that because that makes them cool as a 58 year old guy 59 I forget how long I forget anyway. Oh, that says blackout is a better song at least it makes you like kind of your blood get going the troubles makes you just want to watch out for a zombie and wonder where Rick is. So I'm I gave it to the blackout and

Pete Turner  51:11  
the commercialization doesn't come off. Good for you. Chris How about you Randall

Chris Endrinal  51:15  
Yeah, the the blackout was the first song I heard from so we you know they they released that video on Facebook. I remember it was to is September of 2017 because it was right around the time hurricane Irma hit us here in Florida and I remember loving the song immediately I heard Adams baseline and had so much punch to it so much funk in it and then I initially said wow this is this is awesome work by Adam and that but then you listen to edges guitars and it's not just one or two sounds there are several different guitar timbers in there and it's classic edge layering texture upon texture and again, you know i i love that bottle doesn't shy away from being political and some may call it surface politicisation. But if you know anything about U2, they've been doing this their entire career. And so and you know, of course, one was going to take shots at 45 the soul the funkiness of the blackout gave me a lot of hope for songs and Songs Of Experience with the troubles. I know we're using a couple of tracks from the deluxe version. But the troubles i think is a great album closer, it kind of comes from the same vein of down tempo closers, like 40 loves blindness and cedars of Lebanon. It's really nice, smooth down tempo ending but to my ears, it just can't beat the blackout. It's it's 10 9% of experience. And

Pete Turner  52:26  
it's interesting, you know, all the judges in general, there is no consensus round between the coffee box and the regular judges, there are six judges, and we have not managed to do it. And now as we go into the championship rounds here, I do have to account for Songs Of Innocence came out originally as an 11 track album, but they put out a bonus that got them to 13 so we're using these bonus tracks to fill out the fight. So though like Chris said, the trouble sort of closes out Songs Of Innocence. We are using Lucifer as hands and crystal ballroom, as the final rounds against the natural songs have experienced closers. Love is bigger than anything and its way and 13 there was a light so let's go ahead and get into round 12 Lucifer his hands vs love is bigger than anything in his way. And if there was ever going to be unanimous one I think it's going to be this round. Let's see what you think. Tim?

Timothy Furnish  53:20  
I think I rooted for you guys now. Yeah, Lucifer fans tend to lose our hands is one of my favorite U2 songs if I always say something about earlier I don't want to argue with other judges but of course that you said of course that U2 is going to take a shot or bottles gonna take a shot at 45 well it bottle ever take a shot at 44 you know it's like some of them it's okay to take shots at not others. That's what I'm talking about. It's just contrived. It's like when I my wife and I went to see you two in Cleveland we go while a little higher because she's up there we live near Atlanta for the for 2017 for the for the for the for the 30 years of tour in Joshua Tree and you know they played the ultraviolet light my way I believe it was in clips raw clips of like liberal women. I mean, like you couldn't find a Nikki Haley or a condi rice to put in that video Bono it's all Hillary and Michelle Obama stuff. I'm like, Come on, give me a break. I get tired of that crap. Anyway, to get back to the point at hand. Losers hands I love it's a great song. I love the lyrics. I love the claps. I love the energy of the song. I know it started I believe it started out as just like a guitar testing for the edge on stage. They turned it into a song, but it's got a lot of energy. I love the song. Love. It's bigger than anything in its way it's anthemic. It is like prototypical U2, I love the song and the first repeating of the verse in the vocals are awesome. But I still like Lucifer his hands better. So I gave this barely Lucifer his hands tend to by

Chris Endrinal  54:50  
Chris. I like both songs too. I like loose hands but Lucifer his hands to me sounds unfinished, which is probably why it was on the deluxe version and not on the album proper. It's It's a shame because I hear tons of potential and Lucifer stands. The chorus and the bridge, though are are missing something it feels like there's there are a couple missing musical elements or Sonic elements that could have given it a little bit more punch. And compared to the anthemic nature of love is bigger than anything its way Lucifer his hands doesn't doesn't stand a chance here. It's I mean, it's not perfectly executed, but love is bigger than anything its way is as big as you to get the magically musically and sonically, you know that love is U2's number one message. And this is and they're saying it can't be bigger than this. Like literally they're saying that and then they play music to accompany and you know, you can hear it feeling 120,000 seats easily. So this one goes 10 nine songs of it's good.

Pete Turner  55:47  
Yeah. When bottle explores love, you explores it spiritually, not linearly. And he really he draws in all these different perspectives throughout his career with love. You're right. And truly love is bigger than anything and it's why if we allow it to be and I love that message, Brian, how did you have it here to wrap up the penultimate round?

Brian Betteridge  56:06  
All right, there's definitely a reason why Lucifer, his hands ended up as a bonus track. I think Tim mentioned that it was started out life as a song that the edge used on stage I actually kind of like it as that instrumental version that happened on the 360 tour a little bit better. I also agree with what Chris said it sounds unfinished. It just it's a tack on they just got it sounds like they just had some fun with it, which is great. They should have some fun with it, but it just doesn't land anywhere. It's it's doesn't go in any direction. Whereas love is bigger than anything and its way I agree with everything that's been said it's it's a huge song. It's it's anthemic, the the message is so important, especially when you kind of couple it with the video that they put out for it. It's it's really relevant to today's world and something that we all need to really kind of consider also I want to compare it a little bit to 42 and you know 40 of course is a U2 classic but you know when the one of the highlights the last tour was them finishing the set with this song and hearing everybody leaving and have like the crowd still chanting you know over and over again. And you can even hear it echoing as you're leaving the stadium was always so incredible. So this was another knockdown round for me I love us bigger than anything and its way defeated lose first hands tend to eight. I think though it's not so much because love is bigger than anything and its way is that much better than Lucifer his hands. I think Lucifer his hands is that much worse than love is bigger than anything and its way Yeah, I just don't like that song.

Pete Turner  57:33  
The 10 point must draws the the winner up to 10 as opposed to a quitter victory. Well, fair enough. Let's have the fighters come out and touch close before the last round here.

All right round 13 the crystal ballroom vs 13 there was a light and we're going to have Chris lead us off here at the end.

Chris Endrinal  57:51  
I love the crystal ballroom the band tried to play it a couple times on the innocence of experience store back in 2015 and it never really you could tell the band weren't really confident with it. That translated into the into a very lukewarm response from the audience. It sounded like they weren't confident in the in the live arrangement. And that's too bad because you know the studio version it packs so much punch that there's that funky baseline again. You know, Adam, Adam has gotten better he he's he's like a fine wine. He has gotten so much better. lately. There's kind of a mysterious ways. grooviness. Yeah to go along some pretty cool lyrics. I think I appreciate 13 and an argument could be made that the lyrics work better in 13 then in song for someone, but for me the punch and the funkiness of crystal ball ruins it for me 10 nine Songs Of Innocence.

Pete Turner  58:38  
Perfect. Tim, let's go ahead and have your last round analysis.

Timothy Furnish  58:42  
Around 13 crystal ballroom I tried to like the song I listened to it a lot. But to me I just it was echo was a discotheque didn't really get a whole lot out of it. 13 there is a light is not exactly a stellar performance, no pun intended. It has a lot of callbacks to innocence. But still, I think it's powerful song and many ways. Release lyrically, although I'm not exactly. Again, overly fond of the music, musical side of that song. So I again, neither one of these is a really a great ending to their respective albums, but I slightly like 13 years light better. So I gave it to that intend tonight.

Pete Turner  59:23  
Brian, go ahead. You're the first time judge here. We let you start it. We're gonna let you finish it. Go ahead and close us out, Brian.

Brian Betteridge  59:30  
Okay, I really like the crystal ballroom, it's a bonus track. But it doesn't sound like a bonus track. It sounds like it really could belong on the rest of the album. And I'm actually kind of surprised that it wasn't there. Because it's that strong. 13 is a good song, I'm going to agree with what Chris said that it it's kind of like volcano and that it suffers, too, because I actually kind of think song for someone does 13 better than then you know, 13 does. It's the lesser version of two songs. And if if song for someone didn't exist, you know, it may come off a little better. But the crystal ballroom is it's just so much fun. It's great to listen to, you know, you kind of almost I cannot actually picture there like a crystal ball in the middle of the room when you're listening to it. It's kind of brings that energy with it. So this even though this wasn't a huge victory, it still was a very clear winner in the crystal ballroom is the victor attend tonight. Fair enough.

Pete Turner  1:00:21  
Sounds good. And that is our fight. So let's go ahead and I'm going to see if Mike has a question. Let's go ahead and toss it over to Mike ringside to see if he's got a question for us, Mike.

Mike Lipari  1:00:31  
So judges, what do you think the result is going to be before we tally up?

Chris Endrinal  1:00:39  
Well, I think the combined scores are going to be closer than I would have originally given them. I mean, my scorecard is leans pretty heavily, one way but i think i think the aggregate of our scores will bring the album's a little closer, although although it seems to me that Songs Of Experience kind of had a run there after the first track and had won several rounds in a row. I think so. Think songs have experienced my pull this out in the end.

Brian Betteridge  1:01:02  
Okay, Brian, I think songs that experience is going to be the clear winner here. It got close a couple times. And I think there may be other judges for whom it's a little closer. But I think across the board, we're going to see that the Songs Of Experience is the better album and that you two did in fact, get better with experience.

Mike Lipari  1:01:18  
Nice. Tim, you had this fight closer than anyone else. any of the other three judges. Really? What are your thoughts? Well,, what did you learn about these two albums?

Timothy Furnish  1:01:33  
Not a lot that I didn't already know. I do like songs and experience better. I think I had it winning by two points. I remember when it came out, I was I listened to it a lot when it first came out. And even my sons did too. And I said, Oh, this is just so much more in many ways, an upbeat album and songs. You know, the Songs Of Innocence was and but I guess I should say it was surprising to me that it was that close because I thought that I would, I would have Songs Of Experience winning by a lot more than did

Mike Lipari  1:02:00  
well looking in the corners. It looks like experiences about to raise his gloves. And innocence is looking a little dejected. Pete, back to you for the final scores.

Pete Turner  1:02:10  
Yeah, that's exactly right, Michael, we've got a unanimous decision, the judges have all the cards tallied and this fight does in fact, go two songs have experienced three judges. All three judges having it go that way. The scores are for Chris and Brian both had at 126 to 119 for Chris and 126 to 117 for Brian, who had a couple more knockdowns. And then Tim had it 124 to 122. And as was stated a little closer than the other judges. And just for clarity sake, the copy box judges brought it in the same direction. But only Mike the Perry being the dissenting judge and taking it to the way which is not a knock on Mike because all three of the copy box judges had this thing, a one round different. And I think we all can agree. There were plenty of tight rounds where you can easily go either way, depending on which knit you pick a great fight. Let's get Richards post fight Richard, why did this happen?

Richard Lackie  1:03:14  
Okay, so a decisive victory. And you heard the reasons why for sons of experience. Looking at the pre fight numbers, it kind of makes sense. And this is a possibility. The four tide rounds just essentially went to Songs Of Experience. So making it a nine round to four win, which if you average up the three judges, that's exactly what you get nine rounds to for a little bit more of a blowout than I had predicted, I thought it was going to be around eight to five for the winner that equals 119 to 125. As far as you go, if you average the actual scores, if you add in the unofficial cards, which are like Pete in this case, because he's not an actual judge, but he still does score. And then any listeners or any friends of the podcast cast or anybody who wants to score and we highly recommend anybody out there that's listening if you'd like to score, but you don't want to necessarily be on Mike or or discuss it really, it's a good way of getting into scoring. And then maybe eventually, someday being a judge on the show. Give it a shot. It's a lot of fun. You learn a lot about the music but unofficial cards made it a little bit closer of a fight but not not by a whole lot. It doesn't really change the ratios any they had it 728 for innocence to 747 for experience, which was 121 to 125 fight. Just a few extra points for innocence. Anyway, this is a very interesting fight great listening to a bunch of experts talk about this kind of stuff and maybe see and hear things that you never heard before. Very interesting stuff. Congratulations, U2 for beating U2.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:47  
And back to you guys.

Pete Turner  1:04:50  
Thank you, Richard, as always very insightful and appreciative. Fellas, I really appreciate it. Any last final thoughts here before we close this Sing out? Dr. Tim?

Timothy Furnish  1:05:01  
Well, I just want to say I think it's amazing. And a couple of the guys you guys have alluded to this on that a band that's been around for this long, could still do as good an album as long as they've experienced because a lot of bands by this point have phoning it in. And you too, if they don't do anything else.

Pete Turner  1:05:15  
Yeah, they're real. You too. He, of course, what else would they be? But you could tell they work damn hard on their albums. That's for sure. Dr. Chris, I want to ask you a special question. Because you are you're the expert, worldwide expert on U2 in terms of academic credentials. Neither of these albums really smashed and came through how do they carry an album like Joshua Tree or war or unforgettable fire or even oxygen baby? Do they really stand up? Or is this a band that really has, you know, this is like Tim said is a well crafted album, both of them are brilliant in so many ways. Is this just a band that no longer has that extra gear to get songs to elevate into the atmosphere?

Chris Endrinal  1:05:55  
Well, you know, only time will tell I was surprised about Songs Of Innocence. I really like Songs Of Innocence when it first came out. But I was surprised at how it didn't hold up as well as the years have gone by Songs Of Innocence going to be five years old coming up in September some some experience will be two years old. And I think even you know with that age disparity I think songs have experienced is holding up better. Over time, I think you to learn some lessons from Songs Of Innocence. And you can tell that on Songs Of Experience. Experience is not a perfect record. Of course, you know, and the hardly RMB perfect records, but Songs Of Experience in my estimation is really highly ranked in my own personal catalog. I would probably put it at number three or four.

Pete Turner  1:06:33  
Wow, okay, high praise that phrase.

Chris Endrinal  1:06:35  
It's really, really good. And it shows no signs. The quality shows no signs of dropping off with age,

Pete Turner  1:06:42  
there's a lot of callbacks to their earlier work is just their final original album. No, I don't think so. Okay, I don't think so. Brian, what are your thoughts post fight?

Brian Betteridge  1:06:50  
Well, I knew going into this that I like Songs Of Experience better than Songs Of Innocence. But then when I looked at my scorecard, I was surprised by how much more I like Songs Of Experience and Songs Of Innocence, I think thought it would be a little closer. But this also reminds me I think in the past year or so after Songs Of Experience came out I've kind of been thinking or considering songs of songs and Songs Of Innocence. And songs have experienced to be two halves of a of a double concept album perhaps. And I would and I haven't actually done this yet, but I would. But this experience here today really makes me want to take some time to sit down and listen to Songs Of Innocence and Songs Of Experience back to back as one big double album to see exactly how well they hold up with each other and how well they may compliment or enhance each other by considering them to be one big thing. I think it's a it's a really natural thing to do because song for someone and 13 have really good callbacks to each other and volcano and American soul have callbacks to each other. There are similar themes throughout the two. I think that considering looking at them that way may actually have a greater positive impact on both albums. Were for all I know it could go the other way to another could be you know, not a not a great experience for me. But I think that's gonna be my next thing that I'm going to do with these two, inspired by this fight here today is see how well they mesh as one day now.

Pete Turner  1:08:09  
Well, yeah, no, I think you're right. It is a two part album. And maybe even I'm when I went through this experience as I judged it, I thought I wonder if you could just kind of lay down a chronological map. And not every song would fit in there. But there are definitely songs a lot of songs about about Iris, you know, in general and just kind of thematic, Lee placed these things into a timeline of Bono in the band's life. And I do mean it in that order. And what you would get sonically in terms of you know, because they clearly haven't built it that way. But I bet you could have some pretty interesting musical experiences if someone was to take the time to actually do that. So we do these out and fights because we love this music. Obviously, everyone in this fight loves you too. Mike loves him so much he even showed up just to listen. So we want you guys to support these bands, all of the bands and album fights. This isn't meant to be derogatory. It's just a way of comparing and contrasting the work. So celebrate the band support, live music, support these people on their websites, by their shirts, all those things. This is why we do this to open people's eyes to music in a new way. We hope that you all enjoy it. Fellas, I get the benefit of hosting these things with my friends, particularly if it's on a Sunday evening because what's better than that? So I personally thank each of you for doing this with me. I know how much time and effort goes into all of this stuff. And I don't take that lightly. So I really appreciate each one of you. And I can't wait to do another one. And maybe we'll find another epic U2 versus U2 fight. Maybe we'll go old U2 vs New U2 up at some point. But just thank you very much for coming.

Timothy Furnish  1:09:39  
Glad to be back

Transcribed by https://otter.ai