Ed Hiner – First, Fast and Fearless, Leading Like a SEAL

Ed Hiner – First, Fast and Fearless, Leading Like a SEAL - Guys like Ed, keep us safe at night. Ed Hiner and Pete A Turner sat down in Old Town San Diego, at Barra Barra to have a chat about SEAL leadership. 
Ed dives into what makes great leaders and defines his thoughts on various thoughts on work-life balance for high-end performs. The MOM, Mission, Others, Me is just one of the tools Ed describes. 
Pete and Ed talk a LOT about operator life and how one survives on the tip of the spear. 
#SEALs #coronado #oldtownsandiego #combat #warriors #podcast #BIDS #GUTS #groundtruth 
Haiku
First Fast and Fearless
Leading Like Navy SEALs
Mission, Others, Me
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Transcription

Jon Leon Guerrero  0:00  
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. We've got a very special week planned for you. You've heard us talking for the last couple of weeks about Pete participating in the corn auto swim this coming weekend. It's an event to raise awareness and money for the seal veterans foundation. So this week, we're having special operators week on the break it down show. It's kind of like Shark Week. It's dangerous. It's masculine, its aggressive, and it's got Lotsa teeth, and it's a lot of fun. We're going to highlight some special operations veterans who are doing some very interesting things like they haven't already done a lot of interesting things, but they've moved forward in their careers to do some great things in very different arenas. leading off this week is iron Ed Heiner.

Jon Leon Guerrero  0:00  
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. We've got a very special week planned for you. You've heard us talking for the last couple of weeks about Pete participating in the corn auto swim this coming weekend. It's an event to raise awareness and money for the seal veterans foundation. So this week, we're having special operators week on the break it down show. It's kind of like Shark Week. It's dangerous. It's masculine, its aggressive, and it's got Lotsa teeth, and it's a lot of fun. We're going to highlight some special operations veterans who are doing some very interesting things like they haven't already done a lot of interesting things, but they've moved forward in their careers to do some great things in very different arenas. leading off this week is iron Ed Heiner. He's a retired seal and seal trainer, who's now an author of books on business and leadership. his new book is called guts. I haven't read it yet, but I have a sneaking suspicion what it's about. If I was a betting man, I might wager that it's about being decisive, and leading with integrity. And following through. I mean, the guy was a seal. And if we know anything about seals and special operators in general, it's that they're decisive and regardless who's watching, they don't stop until their missions done. His previous book was called first fast, fearless, how to lead like a navy seal. The forward in that book was written by Ken Blanchard and that's a big, big deal. Ken Blanchard, for the unfamiliar is an author with over 60 books published about business and sales and management and leadership. And endorsement from him is like an endorsement from Earl Campbell. Now I don't watch NFL football anymore, not because of Colin Kaepernick, although I do think he got a raw deal, but mostly because of guys like Earl Campbell. Also guys like jack Tatum and john to Zach and junior sale, whose lives with CTE after the NFL were terrible, and how the NFL tried to do as little as possible about it. But Ed Heiner has an opinion about guys taking a knee on the field. And so do I. You can check out Ed's opinion at at Heiner. com. You should do I agree with it. Maybe, maybe not. The point is, and as Ed puts it, regardless of our opinions, we have more in common than not. And we should listen to each other, and we should express ourselves and we should be free to do so. And I support that for sure. And frankly, whatever else Ed's doing because he's a great guy, and he's done a ton for us from the beginning of his career to the present. His movement is called about face and it's an approach that was born of his explanation to the situation on the field to his son. Go to Ed Heiner calm, buy a T shirt and support his movement if you agree. And if you don't agree know this, we all want our brothers and sisters to prosper and our kids to lead a life of purpose and fulfillment. And we should all be able to express ourselves, even if you disagree, and if we listen, we might learn something from each other. You sure will learn a ton from Ed Heiner. And if you want to support him again, go to Ed Heiner dot com. If you want to support Pete and the seal veterans Foundation, go to seal veterans foundation.org and go see Pete at CT nado Island this Saturday. And if you want to support the breaking down show, just go give us a five star rating and write us a little review about how you agree with us or you don't he'll shout out your favorite football team rub it in my face you get to do that this is America. And if you don't know the story of Colin Kaepernick and our friend Nate Boyer, who was also a special operator, check out one of the episodes he's done with us in the archives. We love Nate Boyer. We also love you guys for listening and you're going to love our leadoff hitter for special operators week. Here is iron Ed Heiner, millions rock productions

Unknown Speaker  3:49  
This is Jay Mohr

Unknown Speaker  3:49  
and this is Jordan, Hans's, director from the Navy Sebastian youngsters, Rick Morocco Stewart Copa This is Mickey

Unknown Speaker  3:57  
Baxter

Unknown Speaker  3:58  
Gabby Reese is Rob belly. This is Johnny gray.

Pete Turner  4:00  
And this is Pete a Turner.

Ed Hiner  4:04  
My name is Ed Heiner. I'm a retired Navy SEAL author of best selling book first fast fearless. How to lead like a navy seal and I'm here with break it down show.

Niko Leon Guerrero  4:15  
And now the break it down show with john Leon Guerrero and Pete a Turner.

Pete Turner  4:22  
Yeah, this is cool. We're in Old Town, by the way. San Diego. Oh, yeah. Doesn't be drinking beers. We had shrimp salad for lunch. And this is one of the things that I love about doing this field work is getting to talk to other guys that that know the the field life and just the realities of life at its hardest, you know, pushing through adversity. Every seal I know, has said that I got through buds, because I was willing to die to do it.

Ed Hiner  4:49  
Yep. Yep. That's I'd say that's probably better. That's a fact. Guys. You know, a lot of times you know, guys just, they that's all they did obsessed with being a seal. That's all they had. And other guys that quit that they had other ideas on life today. Yeah. But it was like No, I'm 100%. And this is it. Yeah, that I think that was important. Yeah.

Pete Turner  5:08  
I mean, in effect, I rang the bell before everyone put a 40 when it seven to request it because I had a great job. intelligence agent. Yeah. So when I looked at like, what else could I do? I could fly a helicopter and on my butt is really not any better than what I'm doing. I mean, I got to go out and hang out with you guys. Yeah, I got to go out with Green Berets. I got to to go out with you guys. Yeah. Ask questions and help you guys figure out how to do your stuff. Everything. So yeah, like, you're right. There's no way that I would go through that and build. I'm just gonna go back to Oh, good. Good.

Ed Hiner  5:40  
Yeah. Right. Exactly. So most of us had nothing, you know, we that's it. There's just one path. Yeah. And that multiple paths. We were just testing the water for an interview. This was that we're all in

Pete Turner  5:52  
it. This is Pete real quick. I just want to let you guys know, we are proud to announce our official support of save the brave, a certified nonprofit 501 c three, with a charge of helping veterans with post traumatic stress. Here's how you can help go to save the brave, calm, click on the link on the website. And my recommendation is this subscribe, give him 20 bucks a month. You've got subscriptions you can turn off right now that you're not using that or $20 a month swap that out. Get involved. Let's help these folks out. Testing the water for an interview. Yeah, this was that we're all in your show will go up before I do my swim for Coronado for the Navy SEAL foundation. You said you've done this swim.

Ed Hiner  6:31  
Swim on that one at water for quite a bit. Yeah. Probably two decades worth of what am I

Pete Turner  6:34  
getting myself into?

Ed Hiner  6:36  
Let's see. It'll be cold. Okay, good. which is you know, it's a good thing to wake you up. It's a good thing. It produces neurotransmitters, which makes you feel good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it'll be cold.

Pete Turner  6:47  
Yeah. You guys like to use fins when you swim?

Ed Hiner  6:50  
We do. There's no reason not to write. Unless you have to. But

Pete Turner  6:54  
I've been stubborn about this. But I've been working on my fin technique. What is your preferred ocean swimming Finn technique we're not going to do also mixed up. I'm just

Ed Hiner  7:03  
sure if I use fence for the crawl stroke. Yeah, you know, the freestyle, the people so called. You know, I use a lot of legs. I do find myself engaging heavily in the legs because normal swimming, if you swim, you know CrowdStrike without fins, your legs really only there to balance you. Yeah, you don't get a lot of propulsion. Most people think you all you got to kick your legs hard and but if you really get a good swimmer, it's it's you're not using your legs much right. So the strengthen up your hip flexors do a lot of flooding. A

Pete Turner  7:29  
lot of flooding a lot of lot of kicks. Yeah. Yeah. It's been different because you're right, when you have fins on on my I can really swim at a way slower cadence. Okay, kind of cruise along. You can Bry and I've been messing around with the double dolphin kick. Yeah, like driving my hips on one and then kind of knee kick. The second one. And I'll be damned. It's pretty fast.

Ed Hiner  7:49  
It is not bad. And you got to get the right fans, right. You want to get swimming fans not diving fence. Right? Good surface fence. Yeah. But it's a it's a really good way we have fans if you're not a good person, stroke person. If you don't if your techniques not, you know really, really good, right? Your fins kind of help you cheat a little bit. So you can get fluid in the water and you can move.

Pete Turner  8:08  
So here's my question. And I'm not trying to ask you about anything specific. But I'm curious. If you were to do 100 meter missions as a seal in a combat environment? How many times would you say, Would you actually get in the water and do a swim? Would you guys do it just to like, you know what, we have this capability, let's swim in or

Ed Hiner  8:28  
just go path of least resistance? It depends what, you know, area of operation, what's going on? I mean, obviously, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not much water. Yeah, there's a little bit of water, but not a lot of water. But some of the other places around the world. If we're doing low level, low visibility stuff. Yeah, you'd be swimming on a coast because we do a lot of dropping boats out in the middle of the ocean, get it roads, drive near the coast, swimming over the beach, and then come back out of the beach.

Pete Turner  8:54  
When you swim in somewhere. You can't be exhausted when you get there. And not that you guys get tired, but you can't use all your it's easy to use all of your energy and five mile swim,

Ed Hiner  9:03  
and just be like, Oh, yeah, the water will suck it out of you.

Pete Turner  9:05  
Yeah, you're cold. you're uncomfortable. You're working hard. You have a lot of gear.

Ed Hiner  9:09  
Well, yeah, it's it people don't understand the water work is probably the hardest work in the military. Because you got to have specialized gear. Right? It's you know, it's the water will take your life in a heartbeat. You know, everything's got to be waterproof. Gotta be right, you know, zip, zip lock, if you will, it's gotta be you gotta keep things dry. Yeah, keep things from sinking. You got to keep you from sinking, you know, their operations where we would train where you, you know, have 100 pounds of equipment swimming in and out of the half. And then when you hear that surf zone, hammered for about 1000 meters away, like, you can see it in everybody's eyes at night, like Oh, God, here we go. Yeah, it's gonna be horrible, because sometimes we did Ops, you know, training operations where we were swimming, like even a Camp Pendleton up from San Diego, the surf, you can hear it. Maybe one two clicks out. And then you're swimming out there to take us sometimes to hours to swim past the surface. All that equipment. Yeah, but I do it. I mean, you know?

Pete Turner  10:04  
Yeah, we had a couple of guys on who are World War Two guys. And one of them. Ray Lambert wrote a book recently. And Jim Jim de fleece was his co author, he wrote, he basically wrote Chris Kyle's book, and he was like the main author on that. And he was talking with Ray and so Ray gets off the beach in the first wave. And he's a medic, and is instantly hit. Oh, yeah. You know, instantly and then, like, the first movie, second guy, he saves a guy that's hung up on barbed wire under the surf. And he's like, why can't this guy go and then he's like, I'm gonna go down and then he dives down deep freeze that guy. But all of these things happened within 100 yards, if less of the surf and the beach I know you read this and it's so even then it's still we had a Hagen's boat came in the gate right on top of him in another and he's like, I'm gonna die. This is what happened yeah, and then he's like for some reason that the boat lifted the gate and went it's that mouse and so he lived but it waters dangerous

Ed Hiner  11:05  
waters dangerous you don't know the stuff that we do. Most people might not know this but we have a specialized team seal delivery vehicles. These guys all they do basically is underwater stuff, right? We have our own little submarines. We attach to bigger selves and travel around the world they actually do the most classified mission of anything.

Pete Turner  11:22  
Grab that Yeah, I they like a branch of the one 16th who flies everybody everywhere

Ed Hiner  11:26  
know these guys are we they travel around on us? Summer right of the submarine? Yeah, we have a shelter on top of that submarine. And this miniature sub goes on it. They traveled around the world and they never come over the surface ridiculous. Oh, it but you're down there. Somebody these guys will travel. And the submersibles would have done which truly is one of the hardest things you can do. It's we call it the low float and coffin. So it's about a six by six space in the back. You might get six operators in there with all their equipment. It's watered logged. It's not it's not watertight. Yeah. So you're in there. doors closed is no windows. Obviously nothing. There's no lights. And you just breathe for hours. Get into your target. Geez. Oh, it's it's Yeah. Yeah. The guys do that they're to frogman. They're the guys that I they have probably the most discipline because water will kill you. Yeah. Nobody would even know it's middle the night. You're like I wouldn't Johnny go. Yeah, Johnny's at the surface. Now he's got Yeah,

Pete Turner  12:17  
so I know these guys seals that have this mission or are they specialized?

Ed Hiner  12:22  
Okay, all most of them a lot. Most of those guys stick in that branch if they want to do it, you know, they go over to that special team. Yeah. And a lot of them stick there because it's hard to get all the skill sets. Sure. Sure. Need. Right. And it's, it takes a certain kind of mental toughness. I mean, think about it. You're in the water sometimes. 10 hours. Summers you're wet. And the pilots in the copilot sometimes they'll anchor these STDs you still delivery vehicles off the coast, say 50 feet, 40 feet or whatever, they might do it. And they just sit there and breathe until the seals go on the beach and do what they're going to do. Come back get back in the boat. Haha. Close it. I just sat there.

Pete Turner  12:59  
Yeah. That's a whole lot. That's a whole lot of sitting there. Water immersed in water. dangerous moment. Yeah, for sure. You, you read a couple of books. Actually. You read one. And then there's another one coming out that we may or may not talk about. Let's talk about the first one that is out that you can't talk about.

Ed Hiner  13:15  
Well, first fast and fearless. I wrote that 2015 Okay, so um, and I've been working a lot of speaking engagements, corporate corporate speaking and whatnot. Yeah, it was it ended up being a best seller, you know, short period of time, but it hit. And yeah, it's kind of from a lot of my experiences a lot of the Well, as you know, most of the stuff you learned is you have a scar somewhere from it. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I won't be doing that again. Yeah. So a lot of was learned by people that I you know, learn about me, but also learn about people that I knew, you know, it just kind of breaks down what the brand of a leader is, you know, and in a nutshell, that would be kind of a steward leader. A lot of people talk about servant leadership. Yeah, I'm more of a steward leader because I don't see myself as necessary servant, more of a steward. You've got actor guardian. Talk about the Brotherhood, what it means, which also means sisters, you know, yeah, just, we call it the Brotherhood. But it talks about, you know, loyalty and just a lot of different values that we have and, and then kind of the battle rhythm, how to set up a team and chaos or buco, right. It's a military term buco, is volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, right. Chaos. Yeah. And it's how to set up teams like that and lead with it and yeah, and it's all based on ethos character, okay. Because, you know, I mean, that's that in the military, and any high performing organization, character is, it's, it's very important, and it's pivotal to success.

Pete Turner  14:33  
character is built through absolute trials, and, and a lot of failure. You know, because you have to someone the other day, on Twitter, and we're going to bring Twitter into everything, but he's, you know, like, when you become famous, and you get on that rocket ship, I would say that your character can't keep up with that. Because you have to learn those lessons as you go along. Some people will carry it with them, but it's not expected that you would.

Ed Hiner  15:00  
Well, you know, that's funny, you say that because I actually do this exercise with companies, okay. And I do an ethos building show workshop, okay. And it says, you know, depends on how much time they have or how much money they have. Now, it's, it's a couple days to three days. And it breaks down all the values of the company thinks they have the mission statement, all these kind of different things and it kind of develops their own ethos statement. And what do they stand for? Because, you know, in complex verruca, those chaotic situation, there's no rulebook, there's no playbook, nobody can tell you how to do it. We've been in situation where you like, I've never done this before. I've never trained to that. Yeah, guess what, now you're the expert. So I get this for so long. These companies, you know, these guys, when they get into these, these gals get into these really complex situations where it's just frantic, the markets changing, everything's volatile. If you don't have that moral compass, or the guiding ethos, then you kind of can stray off anywhere. Yeah. But if you understand you, here's, here's what's going to guide us It might not be perfect, and it might not be the only thing out there, but this is going to God is like our Constitution, constitution. Without the Constitution, we would just wander off into another house. Yeah. And it's not perfect. It's not flawless is created by humans, but it's a good guiding compass for us. Sure.

Pete Turner  16:17  
Yeah. And if we all agreed there'll be a problem. Right, right. We're a nation that's meant to argue and figure things out. And, you know, we have to learn how to tolerate one another. And it's not how to like, like, freedom is how you define it. That's how I define it. It's how she defines it. Yeah. But we don't get to have like, we will talk about three parties. And I'm like, well, then you'd have two thirds of us that are pissed off all the time. About 40%. Yeah, that's true. So and then I guess, I suppose I should say, someone like President Trump, who causes a lot of problems because because he is a Buca machine, right. It just creates all this chaos. We can look at him ago had bosses worse than that? Yeah, you know, I'm way more erratic way more egotistical way more narcissistic. You know, and and then sometimes the best bosses are absolute assholes, everybody, you know, because they just don't give a damn about being nice to give a damn about the mission.

Ed Hiner  17:07  
Well, that's, I have a principle here that you'll I think you'll like this. I broke it all down. And I'm the kind of simple fact that simple way of looking at leadership that I think is very effective, is you go by the mom principle, okay. Mission others made. So when you're in charge, if you make decisions based on that hierarchy, most people are going to not acknowledge it, even if you're hard on them. Like, look, I'm looking for the mission, because we all agree on that job here. Yeah. And I'm looking after other people. And then lastly, I look at myself and it doesn't mean looking after other people, I'm gonna let you slide or let you hold you accountable. Just like I hold my 12 year old accountable. Right,

Pete Turner  17:44  
right. So you were talking with me before off mic about mission creep at SOP creep, you know, where the military tends to want to like squeeze the mission, especially in training, we're going to do this 17 week block of the 17 week block of training in 10. And everyone's like, well, how the hell are we gonna do that? How the fuck are we going to do that? 

Ed Hiner  18:06  
Well, we're just going to do it. We're just gonna do it.

Pete Turner  18:09  
And then bad things happen. Bad things happen.

Ed Hiner  18:11  
Yeah, I watched it over over the course of few years. We we knew that perfect storm was coming. Right. You know, because we have, you know, it's no secret. If you watch the news, it's helped a lot of Special Operations units, you know, deployed to seal teams are having some disciplinary issues, some some issues that are questionable. But it's it's it hasn't happened overnight. That that is it's been a slow creep, right? By commanders, not saying no, it's by you know, every it seemed that every two years there was a new surge. And every two couple years, there's new commanders and we call it you know, you it's like a new jockey on the tired horse. Yeah. less people. We were growing new people, but not as fast as the mission was growing. So not enough people to fill these jobs, people working 20 hour days, you know, this is all of a sudden Eric comes in and bad, catastrophic stuff happens. We lose some of the standard operating procedures that we used to have, it was ingrained in us. Yeah. And just some of the disciplinary. disciplinary is a it's a must in the military, and we lost some of it. We'll get it back, though, right? When a commander

Pete Turner  19:16  
comes in, they want to make their mark right? Do they want to make a mark, the outgoing commander gets to make a long speech. The incoming commanders like all standing orders stand. Yeah, we're gonna get to work tomorrow. And then they get to work. And they start trying to do it. And you're right. They, they often put the whip to that tired horse

Unknown Speaker  19:32  
horse have been beaten. And horses in a marathon their own different way, man, hey, we

Pete Turner  19:37  
know what we haven't done enough. We haven't worked hard enough. Yeah. That's it. And it could be true of weapons. But just pushing the accelerator doesn't. Breaks people that makes that makes seals get out of 13 years, who gets out of 13 years like you well, financially.

Unknown Speaker  19:52  
It's crazy. Unless you do I mean, obviously, if you die in a job, it's not crazy. But yeah, it's not financially smart. But we thought I've watching I'm watching really good officers, one of them. Sean Pybus was one of our admirals. And he was humble, smart. I mean, just a genius kind of guy. But I remember, it was right after all, like 2008, and all that, you know, kind of we had multiple wars, we had me three, I think was three named conflicts going on Iraq, Afghanistan, and Philippines right now. So we had three OI, whatever. He came in and change the whole kind of philosophy of what was going to happen. He's like, here's my, like, four priorities. Everything else? Yeah. Because what you're going to focus on Yeah, you know, you throttle back down, get the real things done first, you know, and quit looking at all the shiny objects flying around people, don't you off task, get these priorities? I mean, one of the exercises, I challenge everyone to do is if you know, but you know, everybody says find your why. Yeah. But I say find your why in the morning, but figure out your what at night. Last thing I do, and I think was colin powell that I read his book, years ago that I learned this, it's like, at the end of the day at work day. I would write down he said write down five things you have to do tomorrow. jot those down. Yeah, you get into work. You know, you get 400 emails, financial people yelling at God, like, Okay, I got these five thing, I got to do these. And it was a good philosophy, get prioritize, and get what you have to get done first. You know, it's like, was a pear toes? principal at 20 rule, right? Yeah, you know, you spend 20% of your time, or ETFs, you should spend 80% of the time or 20% of your time, it gets 80% of the results.

Pete Turner  21:30  
There are so many facets to doing things. Well, I mean, like, if I have five things, you know, if I don't account for my well being? I mean, okay, yeah, you got I worked out. But, you know, if I'm racing towards an emotional cliff, because I've spent five, you know, it's like, don't sweat the small stuff. And it's all small stuff, except for like, there are things that really have to get done. And if the work is always my top five, going I never take care of me. I never take care of my loved one. You know, I, I become a look, if who leads the league and divorces besides operators? You know, I mean, I think the seal teams, if I remember correctly from the family wellness brief that we got one, right, it was 98%. If a career CEO would have that 90% chance of getting divorce, which everyone is that? Oh, yeah, that's a career that has been divorced at least one. Right, because wives are never the top five. Well, I looked at it.

Unknown Speaker  22:23  
Yeah. When you're going nine months out of the year, yeah. consistently over and over and over, then, obviously, they have other things to do. It's like the data part. Yeah, it's a hard it's a hard life.

Pete Turner  22:34  
Yeah. So as a leader, do you say, Hey, listen, you have four things you're going to do today? And the other five is take care of mama or take care of something. That's part of your personal life.

Unknown Speaker  22:46  
Yep. Yeah. I mean, good leaders. Do they? Do you realize it? Because it is, you know, it's not just a marathon? It's an ultra marathon. Yeah, it's going and going and going, you can't just keep beating that horse because the horse will just die. And or get out. So yeah, I mean, you can gotta prioritize that. And you good leaders will tell their people even though they're getting pressures from above, they're like, Hey, take some time off. Do you think next book coming out is called guts, guts, it's about greatness under times of stress, okay. And it's a how to deal with fear, generate a manufacturer motivation, and it's one of the things have kind of identified and we we identified it as a community. 10, eight years ago, nine years ago, the doctors were seeing a constant patterns and seals that have been downrange. I remember I came off my ninth deployment. We did all these blood tests and it and they sort of realized in our blood or hormonal level cortisol level, vitamin levels just we look like on paper, even though we were fit. We were working out hard. We look on paper. We're like 75 year old dudes. Yeah. So we started kind of a you know, so I started adopting some of these principles, and I'm writing about them now. It's simple, but you got to do them. You know, right. Well, I call it the combat chassis. Okay. And it's a good foundation. It's either you died exercise. Yeah. Your mindfulness Yeah. And sleep. Sleep. Most people even in executive world. They think sleep for weakness, right. If you sleep one six hours night during this week, well, guess what? Yeah. Everything else trickles from it. Not true. Yeah. So you're going to have side effects? Yeah, right. We all know, we go downrange, you don't sleep for six months. You're, you're exhausted all the time. You do sometimes stupid things that you're like, what did I just do? Yeah, because you're exhausted. And it's very, very valuable that you got to be very disciplined about your sleep? Yeah, I've been going. I've been doing this testing all these things. All myself. Yeah. That's a

Pete Turner  24:36  
very, I had a walking pre apology thing I would do, I would say, you're likely to say something to me, I'm likely to respond poorly. It's not my common response. I'll go all calm down. I'll take a nap. Come back. And we'll get back to business meeting. Yeah, I already apologize in advance because I knew what happened. Because you're, you're pushing hard. And I also learned that I had to take a nap each day. Because I need to process things I needed to shut down because I would not shut down. I would 20 hours a day, no problem, let's go indefinitely. And then my quality of a higher performance was gone. You know, I still performed 85%. That's great. All day long, the whole tour. But that's not what the command needs. They need that other higher level

Unknown Speaker  25:19  
you do if you look at it, because I you know, I've been just kind of doing my own research. I call myself in the next book, by the way, the blue collar scholar, okay, I don't have a PhD or anything. But I study a lot of different things like most guys and military. Yeah, we're interested in improving our game. Right? And yeah, it kind of studied all these things. And you can see the effects and I mean, a diet of sleeping, just the fact that when you sleep this watching your your human growth hormone increase. Yeah, you know, and if you don't sleep, decrease, so those kind of things. And that creates a mood in your mind and which creates an action down the road. So

Pete Turner  25:53  
yeah, for sure. I definitely had to learn to recalibrate my initial response to things when I came back because I wasn't switched on all the time. My cortisol pathways were enormous. I know what the answer is cortisol, I'd be laughed about I fuck you up. How about I tell your head off?

Unknown Speaker  26:10  
The difference that the separation from violence and being civil is like that's, if you can get the listeners can see this was like a millimeter. But yeah, the it goes down to nothing. You ready just to get up someone's ass in a heartbeat.

Pete Turner  26:24  
I wasn't having that bad of a day. And I met some diversity in a 711 with money and I needed money. And a guy was mocking me. And I'm like, okay, after sad right now, if I want and I was able to control enough to go, do I want to go to jail? And do I want to break this guy's job? Because there was no doubt all of that was going to happen. But I'm like, okay, I don't want to break this guy's job. I'm just I'm just mad. It's not his fault. He can be a dick all he wants. But he came within.

Ed Hiner  26:53  
He didn't even know hey, I

Pete Turner  26:54  
had no idea. I was gonna I was gonna separate the top part of his job from the bottom part. No problem.

Unknown Speaker  27:00  
Yeah, that that is an issue, I think of it. And but what I what I've been working on Personally, I'm writing about it now for a few years. I found that myself the same way. Yeah, like, and I even took it a step further a couple times. But I like okay, how how you just because you know, you're if you're in the military, and you're fighting person, controlling your emotions is a very, I mean, controlling your actions is your medical, when you're emotional, but controlling your emotional motions itself, actually, that's mastery. How do you control yourself from tricking, getting into that emotional, I'm going to smash your face. And I've been working on that for two years now. And then I'm writing about a lot of because I'm like, wow, this, there are ways you can actually do that. So

Pete Turner  27:42  
someone like Jocko gets up at 430 every morning. I mean, I often get up at five in the morning, whatever, I get ready for 30?

Ed Hiner  27:48  
Whatever. But that's my natural rhythm.

Pete Turner  27:50  
Yeah, exactly. Right. Like you have to find your spot, I'm tend to be more of a swing shift guy, but I start early, and then work until about 10. But me getting up earlier won't make them more productive. You know, I've got to work with the time that I've got. And then so many different segments that I run my own business, you know, so I've got to try to figure out how to take care my businesses to care my money, but also got to take care of my relationship, I've also got to now that I don't want to have the urge to kill myself every day, I don't I'm not in danger or anything. But I want to every day, I can feel that. And I've got to manage that part of my brain, because I know that my peers that have weren't that far ahead of me on the whole. So I've got to manage that part of me. And there's all these things that I've got to manage. And it gets the overwhelming and I tend to attend to do the things that I know I can do right now. And kind of let go some of the things like taking care of my body as much as I do. And I've been swimming and I am getting into better shape again. But you know,

Ed Hiner  28:48  
it's easy to let that go. It is it is because you know you don't prioritize it. But you know, I hopefully we can get it. Well, I'm helping people do and the next thing I'm running about is and I have an experiment with these things, a lot of times helping them reach defined have a new relationship with parts of their life, just like a relationship with your spouse, you know, after many years it can slip away. How the hell do you start another relationship? How do you start a relationship with food? How do you start a relationship with diet? Or fitness? And yeah, we all went through that it's like, you know, you gotta you gotta realize they all connected they're all connected if you you know, if you're not sleeping, you know, your hormone levels crazy your mood swings your actions, because your mood your feelings drive your, your, your motion driving emotion. Yeah. So you control either into that it's kind of a cause and effect relationship. And our doctor that was doing a study on us, Dr. Parsley guys can look him up. He's actually now retired and went out to the civilian world selling products to the world on how to sleep, right. But he was, we all were like his little guinea pigs because like, you know, you got to get this kind of these pieces to your life together. It doesn't sound like you do, you can just suck it up, you know, get up at 430 try harder, you know, and dig deeper. Okay, that that's great for six or 8% of the population but the other 92% after it doesn't work. And then after you've done that for long enough, you're going to shut down.

Pete Turner  30:06  
I had Rob Owens on the show here today. That show will come out sometime probably before this one does. But Rob is a PJ but from like at least a full if not two generations before us. He's 67 years old now. All right. So but you know, Pete, everybody loves PJ. It's like no one in any is the funny thing about PJS. recon has a chip on their shoulder because they don't get the respect and love PJ's automatically because look if you're adding a pic an impossible situation, if you fell into a curve ass and you're bleeding out, and a PJ is coming,

Ed Hiner  30:39  
you're going to make it Yeah,

Pete Turner  30:40  
right you know, like everybody and possible job and they're ready for anything we are talking about hi cow, you have to be able to take 100 pounds, twist your body and then extend and then pull it back and not get hurt again their world and it's just incredible. Hey, this is Pete a Turner from blinds, rock productions. We create podcasts around here. And if you your brand or your company want to figure out how to do a podcast, just talk to me. I'll give you the advice on the right gear. The best plan is show you how to take a podcast that makes sense for you that's sustainable, that scalable and fun. Hit me up at Pete at breakdown show. com Let me help I want to hear about it. And then pull it back and not get hurt again their world and it's just incredible. So but I'm at 66 he went through Mark Devine's buds prep, school seal fit. 

Ed Hiner  31:26  
Yeah. And past Did he really at 66?

Pete Turner  31:30  
Yeah. And he and he blew his back out during it. And the thing was cool. He was talking about how like, you know, these are seal instructors that do seal fit. And they're like, okay, it's great. You did a great job. You're two thirds of the way through. It's a win for everybody. We didn't think you'd get this far. You are awesome. You know, and they're just pushing on his quit button. You know, and but they're also like, it really is okay to quit. I mean, he doesn't Yeah,

Ed Hiner  31:52  
you're paying money for it. Yeah.

Pete Turner  31:54  
Yeah. And he's like, No, I think I'll continue. I'll get up now, you know, and he got up from, you know, an injury that was stopped, basically anybody? And then you know, the seal instructor slack. All right, well, then go ahead and start doing some dive roles. 16 of them, go ahead and go see you later. And he did. Like, I do like that. He's like, he's like, I didn't love it. I think we'll do it again. So he was able to push through. And that's that try harder thing. But if you've gone further down the slope, then say, Rob, bad. Rob's never been out of shape in his life, right? So if you are down there, and you're sedentary, your job requires you to sit there and your boss and your job suck the life out of you. Those are the people that I want to help.

Ed Hiner  32:34  
That's it. That's what I'm, that's what I'm looking at.

Pete Turner  32:36  
Yeah, I'm reaching for him. So it's not try harder. Where What does that person do? who literally has no more time? No more energy?

Unknown Speaker  32:43  
Yeah, we just we were just talking about the micro fitness, even those jobs, where it's like, Okay, you got 16 1820 hours a day, whatever day is your Yeah, and they're planning your briefing and doing something just grinding away in some vault, we would have a little challenge. And we would have it with the seals that I was working with, we would just you know, every hour, whatever is going to be boom, outside the vault, pull ups, dips, push ups as much as you can do, you know, maybe even have a jump rope? rope, jumping rope is just a really good thing. Just to get your fluids, you know, crank the transmitters kicking, you get your your endorphins going. So we do that in a day, you got 300 pull ups, you know, 600 push ups or whatever you just like, wow, it's not as good as a sustained workout. Obviously, it's better than nothing. Yeah, right. And you constantly look at your body as something, it's a piece of equipment, you got to maintain it. Right. That's it. Yeah. And it, you know, it affects everything else. It's the vessel that carries your brain around, so

Pete Turner  33:36  
so when your kids going to go do swim lessons or swim team stuff, get in the pool and go swim, you know, because they have a lane for some laps. And if they don't bring a rope and skip rope or whatever work on your manuscript for your book, you know, just try to stack time together, I suppose. Is that the answer?

Unknown Speaker  33:52  
I yeah, use that time wisely. In the mornings, I do this, do this drill. I challenge everybody that listens to this. And I challenge all my family, my friends, everybody to do it. Because, you know, part of the part of that combat chassis is mindfulness. Right? Yeah. Mind, my mind a mindfulness and I figured Buddhists have been doing it for about 5000 years or whatever they've been doing. Yeah, these monks, is it it's got to be something to it. This stood the test of time. So I started meditating, and I got this biofeedback thing goes around my head. This Musa MUSE company gave it to me. They try it out. I told him what I was doing. And it's amazing because I couldn't get it in the middle of the night. If I wake up too early, like, you know, normally I get up at 430 ish. I'm usually up. Yeah, working. But if I get up at like two, or three, I'm like, wow, I'm in between. I'll just sit and meditate. Like, you know, that's my time. I'm not going to sleep anyway. I will meditate and meditated, meditated and really, really try to get it. And it's pretty neat. It's but I think if you practice that, like gratitude, as soon as I wake up, I had a challenge to myself soon as I wake up, thank God, I'm alive, right? Boom, my real do today rather,

Pete Turner  34:58  
believe it hulu's good right now just practice

Ed Hiner  35:01  
that because that ultimately get develops a state of mind. Yeah, in a state of mind is important. You wake up and you go all day, you're like, man, I got a good attitude of state of mind. I'm grateful today is I know, it sounds cheesy. And we thought it was, you know, kind of cheesy, we were probably younger, but it does work. It's very effective. And do that. And I just put, you know, hack that time a little bit. Use it wisely. It's easy to take on a giant list of to do's and not get through it. failed, but absolutely didn't fail. You got always and some days for me like, today is the day where let's just give me one of those hard days. I keep dropping my keys. I spilled coffee on my shirt, all those little things that shit. But like they stack up some days, you're like, this is just, I lower the bar instantly. And I'm like, Hey, you know what today is? Today's one of them days when all I gotta do is get through it. Just keep moving. Yeah, pick them up and put them down, bring them up, put them

Pete Turner  35:54  
down, you know, and whatever it is. I'm going to go to work. I can be the worst employee today. No one's gonna care. It's my shitty day day. You know, I'm having a bad day, everybody. That's gonna be shitty. I'm probably gonna get what it is. Yeah. I mean, you get through and then come back the next day and you realize, you know, you go at it again, and that she didn't have to be so hard. It's It's incredible. I

Ed Hiner  36:14  
just define you. It doesn't define it.

Pete Turner  36:16  
Right. It doesn't Yeah. Okay. Because what defines you? Is that the next day and the next day, the next day? You know, out of 100 days if you have 25 days? Yes. 75 days that are shitty. And let's be honest, you don't have 75 you don't have 25. shady days.

Ed Hiner  36:30  
Yeah. Well, so God.

Pete Turner  36:32  
Yeah, that self affirmation that keeps coming up. Rob talked about it. I had a guy who's a Canadian sniper. He's a special forces guy. You know? He says they're like the Delta Force. Let's be honest. Come on. No, I'm not gonna bust on some committee. Jeff, the posse is super tough, super badass. And I don't want to disparage what he's done. He's He's fantastic. But same thing, though. Right? Like that self talk where you, you get to a moment, you know, you know? saying out loud so your brain can hear you so

Ed Hiner  37:03  
your ear can hear Yes, it

Pete Turner  37:05  
makes a difference

Ed Hiner  37:06  
it does in a language matters. The next book and the gut said, I'm gonna talk extensively about it. Yeah, scientifically behind it. And the blue color sounds right. It's not gonna be exact science. Right? And be close enough. Do you get the picture? Yeah. But it's been talking about what actually happens. The triggers in your brain when you do those things, and you just do it manually. It's like, I'm in a wrench. I do this this ends up, because a lot of people won't do this stuff. Like, oh, this is cheesy. Yeah, you know, this is stupid. Yeah. Because your belief system stops you from doing this, like I'm going to ask people is a try this stuff that I'm going to show? It's just turning a wrench. I'm ready.

Pete Turner  37:39  
Yes, I'm a wrench

Ed Hiner  37:40  
and watch what happens, right, give it time, keep turning. And while on the other end of it, you have something that you didn't think was going to happen to you.

Pete Turner  37:48  
So Rob Owens was talking about the voices in your head when you go through buds, then normally, they're pretty quiet, and they defeat you easily like this for like, that's dumb. That when you push out past that 20% and you're really digging deep into where you really can perform those voices scream at you, because they're mad that you're not doing what they're telling you. But you're also in the zone where you're actually doing things that are impossible to those voices.

Ed Hiner  38:15  
And those voices are critical to what I call anchor your belief system, okay? Because you go into bud state, for instance, you know, you're going to do 20 times more than you ever thought you're gonna do, right? It's almost like when you look at it's daunting. So the good instructors, not just one instructor now he's gonna listen to the show because he read my book and contacted me and he's a hard ass dude, Chief. Jacob was his name. He was he's about 10 years old. And I mean, I think he's about nine years. He's 60 I think he just won Mr. Taco masters bodybuilding. It's not because he's a bodybuilder because he wanted to show discipline and get him down. And he won the whole

Pete Turner  38:48  
fifth place at Mr. incline village. Around the corner. Fifth

Ed Hiner  38:53  
place is all I want. Well, I remember one time I can I can induce cold chills myself. Because one time going through buds at the end and first phase, I'm already getting them. Yeah, that's my legs. Yeah. So you're seeing Joko, he did the right thing he was meaning she had he was about 225 30 pounds and not that muscle wrap around sunglasses shaved head just fucking me. Yeah, and he cussed. That's all he did is cause and I remember one time he did a lot of things but I'm gonna just one time to write he he was like, beat us senseless and we were to obstacle course he goes, You motherfucker. You're not the smartest class ever because but you are some hard

Pete Turner  39:33  
motherfucker.

Unknown Speaker  39:34  
Yes. And we were like oh yeah so even though we were exhausted beat senseless Yeah, all of a sudden he just crank that anchor down to know you know now we associate ourselves with being hard. Right? And it becomes boom, yeah become a source of like, the acceptance of what that job is gonna be it's gonna be hard. Yeah. And he helped us change that relationship with the adversity and that's I've captured that you wait wait to the readers read this one. It's craziness. It's kooky, crazy but when I get into like Okay, I get it now. When did you use that?

Pete Turner  40:12  
Whatever you got to tell me the classified of course but you're out there working and you know this you know you have this rent you already knew your you would like feel it? When did you use that in real life?

Unknown Speaker  40:22  
I use it going in the front door. After we breach the door I certain trigger words because certain those certain trigger words

Pete Turner  40:30  
as he skin goes crazy again,

Unknown Speaker  40:32  
the certain trigger words that I've adapted and trained myself to have is I would use those for I'd go in Yeah, and I you know, usually when I speak I tell us really cool story that one time, you know, kind of had an epiphany, just like we all have somewhere downrange Rios like,

Pete Turner  40:47  
wow.

Unknown Speaker  40:49  
And that were just naturally flowed out of me. Yeah. And I'm a teacher, I teach people kind of how to do that, you know, I was, I was even studying, like, cognitive behavioral therapy, I got a certificate in and all that nonsense. And I'm like, missing the boat on a little bit. Okay. Because Special Forces and in military, I think, in general have a certain way of training people that, quite honestly, we don't even know how we do it. We don't even know we do a lot of the stuff we do. So I looked at every piece of stuff that we did, I'm like, break those pieces down and see exactly what it meant and why we did it. Right and why it worked. Okay, you know, without having to carry a 200 pound log with six people and assault sand.

Pete Turner  41:27  
Right? So five people?

Ed Hiner  41:30  
Yeah, man.

Pete Turner  41:34  
I have similar things to do. But it seems like a lot of what I do, because I have to build trust with people that you guys want to kill. So there's this this given take that we have to try to find that it's a rope, I'm bouncing on the rope. And I've got to not put my ego into my questions. I can't, when I see something culturally, that's repulsive. I have to like,

Ed Hiner  41:54  
right, we see that very repulsive to our value system.

Pete Turner  41:57  
Right, exactly. So I've got to, I don't want to say mask, because I don't believe in the mask part. Because those guys are not going to extend trust as somebody who's masking something, I've got to try to find a way to do it. And so I was like, Oh, that's my ego you get that out of the way. Let me put that back in the cage because it was an ego time. This is their time and I've got a tease them out so that they can give me something to work with. It's not a physical response, but it's a mental thing where I'm like, stop because because I want to go in I want to dominate. I'm a military guy, I'm an alpha, I want to go in and handle these things. It's very, very hard to do to push your ego back into that thing when your commanders like our job was to impose our will upon the enemy. And I'm I can't but not right now. But we got to be crafty,

Ed Hiner  42:45  
right? You gotta be crafty. It's all about the keto.

Unknown Speaker  42:48  
Exactly right right not the sledgehammer that's good over there. Let those guys and that's why they pick you guys. That's why they pick you know, the intelligence guys combat intelligence guys, is that you got brains that you're like, Okay, we're going asymmetrical hair. Yeah, go into the front door. And a lot of the you know, like the self help and all these guys you to hear from Special Forces, unfortunately. Are the front door guys. Yeah, I got a sledgehammer. Where is my mail? But it's like now when you're doing asymmetrical, unconventional kind of warfare. Yeah, you got to bring that toolbox. And that's right. Right. You got it. I don't want to build trust with God. I am just I'm just despise he disgust me. Yeah, yeah. Just sitting across from a tribal leader. You know, he's killed Americans. Yeah. You know, he's, you know, done a lot of things. He's like, okay, but I'm looking for the mission first. Missions way above my mom, I'm way down here. Right on the bottom. So you got a mission others me? So? Yeah, that's that that? That probably took some discipline for you.

Pete Turner  43:42  
I don't know what it took a lot of mistakes.

Ed Hiner  43:44  
Yeah. Oh, my God. Hey, you got a lot of scars, man. I mean, you got a lot experience getting

Pete Turner  43:49  
stuff wrong, like Well, yeah, I still didn't work. I'm still not working. And then finally you like maybe that just doesn't work? And then one more lesson Nope, that Yep, that definitely doesn't work when you prune that branch off your stupidity tree.

Ed Hiner  44:02  
But you know what the one thing about that is, and people don't understand how listeners maybe get this. Hope you get this. We think this is what really dawned on me. I think military is looking especially in a special ops and all this kind of stuff we're doing is for problem solvers. Because there is no rule book, regulations, guidance that can tell you how to go out there and be a mafia boss almost. Right, right. You got to figure things out, and you gotta push past the fear of not knowing if you're a person that has to be told and have clear, you know, everything's going to be black and white. You don't it's not a job for you. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be just meeting with like tribal leaders and people. I'm like, I never trained to this. I don't even know what I'm doing. I love it. I got a big box of money.

Pete Turner  44:46  
Here's my question. I love to ask all of us guys. Did you shoot more rounds or have more conversations in combat?

Ed Hiner  44:52  
Bow? We shot more rounds.

Pete Turner  44:55  
Did you really? ever say that?

Unknown Speaker  44:57  
Well, we did. Well, we did because it was, you know, did a lot of this stuff early on phenomenon. Okay. The task force? No, yeah. It's not a lot of talking going on. Right. Okay. But no, there was no there was I mean, at the end, I think when I was I was in the n o five and six. And I was the ground Force Commander before the other guys from you know, that came in. And that was when we as a seal teams first kind of really woke up. I mean, we were like, direct action. Yeah. Screw the conventional people. Right. We just gotta get out here and walk them out. Yeah. So I was started off and I got with the army, conventional army. We never paired up with him for Scott, Colonel McLaughlin. Never forget. And so Hey, man, what's this tribal stuff. And it was when he was a one man travel engagement team at the time. And so I got on him and we did a first trauma engagement. We saw the power when shit these tribal leaders can make anything happen. Yeah, they're gonna take money and spend money. Sure, yeah. The businessman did is they just, they're just out there hustling when you get past your own bodies. Like, here's box of money. Good luck. You'd be powerful. And that was the colonel actually got killed. Unfortunately, he was out to recruiting Iraqi soldiers got killed on January 5. So 2006

Pete Turner  46:13  
Yeah, it's a hard fight. We were South Southern Baghdad province, right. Right above the river. And so below the rivers a different province. Yeah. And your peers who knows to seals, SF, whoever would bring the rocky Special Force guys across the river and snatch people up. And so and this took a long time to see this picture, you know, cuz I'm out there every day talking to him, may not be in that area. So here's what we found out was the male, the dads who either were or weren't bad, and there was no telling because this was Sunni versus Shia. Internal family stuff. It was the whole social fabric was destroyed. Yeah. So understanding that took a long time because it's easy to like I Hi, nobody you don't know shit. So it takes a long time. And we're talking to a low level police Jacko, Lieutenant 27 year old kid who's trying to run the rocky police. This isn't a rocky guy. And he's like, Look, I have a lot of problems. As things I can't do when people come to me, they bring me problems I don't need. All right. Well, this is the commander wants to know this. What what's happening is like, well, the dads are all sleeping in ditches because they're terrified. If they sleep in their house, they'll get snatched up at night. And that's causing extreme stress for everybody. These aren't bad people, that there are bad people among them. But these even good people I went well, that's not good. So the commander's like, That's not good. How do we stop that? So we're talking to this guy this morning? And this is several conversations. And he's like, Well, one of the things is, is you guys are trying to teach us about rule of law and the court system. But you're snatching guys up, and they disappear. And the moms like, what the fuck happened to Ray? Yeah, where's right. And so he comes knocks on the door, Hey, you guys came and took my husband. He's like, well, don't you have a warrant? Is there something which is like, no, Ray's just gone. And so we wrote this report up. Here's the result. The next day, after the report goes up, it clearly went somewhere. Because the next night, there's a dagger jammed into the table with the warrant underneath it. And it's like this sort of like a subtle fuck you like, here's your due process, but the fact is, is that due process matters. If we're going to preserve it, yeah, we're gonna preach it. It's so hard because you guys need to do your job. You need to take bad guys off the battlefield. And granted, we get that stuff wrong. But we really do need to take bad guys off the battlefield. But there has to be. It's gotta be,

Ed Hiner  48:40  
it's gotta be a systematic process, right? Because what we were doing early on from Oh, 1205 Really? Is that whack a mole, we come in flying to another province, boom, boom, boom, blow the whole place. I'll take a shake. snatch him up, take him back. And now the conventional forces are sitting in a battle space. They just tore the whole fabric off. They're like, Oh, shit, you just took a shake? Yeah, he's bad. He's not as bad as this. Yeah, so I I understood that when I talked to battle Spaceman, and when I was out there, I'm like, you know, I work basically, hand in hand with you. And for you tell me what you want the battle space? Yeah, help you do that. You know, we, you know, a lot of targets we didn't hit because they're like, hey, you're gonna disrupt this.

Pete Turner  49:25  
Yeah, fine enough. But that is the complexity of these modern fights. You know, again, it's not that you guys are doing the wrong thing that that, that the regular military person guys don't want that. Or that I'm doing the right thing. I mean, there's just it's, it's a it's not even a gray zone. It's just a great bubble. And you know, I I hope that this works pop

Ed Hiner  49:45  
and you pop it, see what happens. But lead string? Well, that didn't work. Yeah, it is complex. I hope the listeners can, you know, get a sense for that these wars. And they're like, well, what's going on with this? And you know, these bro, they're very complex and hard. Yeah, you know, they're just no one. There's no one single person that can tell you how to do it.

Pete Turner  50:02  
Let's go back and talk to those moms and dads that are struggling to get off the couch and they're trying to find that common denominator. How much TV do you watch?

Ed Hiner  50:10  
I watched probably about an hour at bedtime. bedtime now? No, sir. Oh by the way that's is one of the lessons because I'm the experiment. Yeah, I don't want anything negative. Because if you watch the national news Yeah, you know what pick your poison cnn Fox blah blah blah. What is that it feels your mind your subconscious or particular activating system is what it's called. With that it develops that state of mind. It makes you angry right? Like I'm tired of being an angry so I want to do it so I only thing I want you to probably be funny to say there's no actually wants you had the bachelorette. I love it. I used to watch dance with the stars. But it went off for like a year. Yeah. Because that's one of my goals. I told my Hollywood guys that I'm working with a production company with is like, one of my goals and get on Dancing with the Stars. Because I haven't had a seal. They haven't had a seat on I can't dance and white guy. Yeah, came dance. And that's one of my biggest fears is going out and work you know?

Pete Turner  51:06  
Yeah. No, I'm in shape. It's not the gym for you. You're already in shape. Yeah,

Ed Hiner  51:11  
yeah. But that's one of the things that Kelly Well, I call it in the next book. I'm gonna call it a bucket list. Okay, write down things that you're scared to do. Yeah, that you want to do. Yeah, I'd been doing stuff like improv. Nice. Oh, yeah. Get in front of people act like a fool. It's hard, but I'm pretty much over now. Yeah, so I do different things like that and conquered. Yeah. Something like what what scared me What what? What? How did I deal with that fear? And then

Pete Turner  51:35  
I did the same thing here on the show. If someone's like, this is really challenging topic. And I'm like, What tears the shit out of me to go public with this stuff. So sounds like a conversation I need to have.

Ed Hiner  51:43  
Yeah, you know, cuz you're gonna take public scrutiny.

Pete Turner  51:46  
Yeah, yeah. And myself up and and, and probably get something wrong about my position on something. You know, it's like, oh, I just got educated. We had Monsanto Come on as a guest. Easy to hate those guys. Unless you're talking to them, then you're like, Well, fuck, yeah. Cuz he said this one critical thing is like we exist because farmers bring problems to us. Well, we'll want to do about that. Yeah. Thanks for coming. By the way, all the GMO stuff that happens after all the traditional things, by the way, we hire all of the most brilliant minds in agriculture. We want to solve these things at the lowest level. Sometimes they aren't solvable and the world would not have this thing anymore, so we won't have that. You're like Well, God damn it. That seems reasonable. Yeah, it forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position and

Unknown Speaker  52:33  
changing the channels what you're doing right. A fox watcher could watch CNN or Yeah, see, get past your belief because it triggers your belief you get angry, right LA. And that's that's one of those exercises I do with myself like, I blind that someone else has gone.

Pete Turner  52:45  
But I watch Project Runway because I don't care for the cattiness. But I care about the creativity like YZ you can you can in an hour built this incredible thing. And I just blew me away and I loved I love watching that artistic expression. But the thing I love even more than that is the it's got a couple of things, but the Great British breaking show. And they take they'll take you

Ed Hiner  53:08  
I used to watch Anthony Bourdain, obviously, he's better than that. Yeah.

Pete Turner  53:11  
Because Because it's like Ed Heiner. From San Diego comes in and they're like today you're doing a souffle. You're like I've never baked in my life. Like you your specialties. Chi's cakes, pies and cakes or something. That's a cool show. And it's regular people and they're not like, I'm going to stab in the back. You're like, Oh my God, look at that. He's struggling. I feel so bad. And it makes me weepy. Thank you. That's a cool show. emotional moments that are about anger. You know,

Unknown Speaker  53:38  
that's, well, it's good to have emotions. You know, the stoic thing is in the past.

Pete Turner  53:43  
Yeah. Well, I think this stoicism thing is cool. But you, you have to have some emotion, that good sign, but life is

Ed Hiner  53:50  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything's about emotions.

Pete Turner  53:52  
So that book is called guts. It's going to be called guts. And then what does that come out? You think?

Unknown Speaker  53:59  
Me? I'm guessing spring, Amy? March, April, May, because right now I'm finishing up and the editing process and how

Pete Turner  54:06  
do folks get more Ed? Where do you Where do they go?

Unknown Speaker  54:09  
You can obviously online and there's a lot of places at Heiner. com. You can tag social media sites all over the place. Yeah, pick up my book, though. You can get the book first fast, fearless, right? Yeah. You don't have to read it just by Amazon. You can get it. Yeah. Amazon audible.

Pete Turner  54:25  
Yeah. What else do you do? I mean, you don't just write books. What else are you doing?

Unknown Speaker  54:29  
Well, you one of the coolest things I've ever done. Okay. This, you'll hear about in the book. I don't want to give all the navy seal. Okay, besides that, okay. Besides a stripper? No, no, no, I want a couple things. And you'll probably relate to this. As I said to myself, I made two promises to myself amongst things, but I said in combat I was, you know, I was going to do two things. When I got back one support veterans. Love is you know, you look at you look across the right, you know what the guys are doing? Like, Pam, they're risking their life. It's unbelievable. Sometimes you see it with reverence. Yeah. I've done I've been working, you know, obviously, I supported Eddie Gallagher. Definitely. I met him in the brig and I went to see him every weekend. But also, the other thing is his kids, you know, you see, I can stomach pretty much anything. I think we both can, you know, you see, they they deserved it. They got their head blown off. Yeah. But the key thing that helped for me, I was like, you know, because I don't think I think it's a moral injury to people like us that even though you see it happening, you know, you didn't, nothing was intentional. You know, the harm of it. So I promised help kids and I did me in a business partner mind spent about six or seven months, we got approval from the district of San Diego superintendent, the Yeah, our executive director that have juvenile foster kids, like juvenile hall and foster kids, all the kids in the system. And we went and developed a summer camp in July this past July. And it's the seven day summer camp for San Francisco high school where all the kids live on campus. So they're all Foster. Yeah, yeah, it took us a long time develop it and get up in front of them and do it. But his goal is very powerful that kids wrote us letters, how we changed our lives. I love how there's like dying for us to come back. So now we're working on developing everyday curriculum for them. Yeah, mental toughness program. It's

Pete Turner  56:11  
cool. I dig it. Man, guys like us, we do seem to have these charters. Like, I try to do charity as often as I possibly can. I don't make a lot of money. But I have time as I try to put my time into even for like, I really don't want to do this. But you know, I've had so much help along, but I should be dead. Yeah, you know, I'm looking at a guy that should be dead. We should not be here. But I've had a lot of help. I've had a lot of support. I've had a lot of good breaks. So try to pass that on. I go to my high school every year. And I taught at least once, sometimes twice. I talked to the high school kids there to try to give them like I'm them from the future. Yeah, you know, like, what do you want to know, by the way, life is hard. Don't be in such a hurry to have an hour long commute in two directions, you know, and I become an adult.

Ed Hiner  56:53  
Yeah, don't race brother.

Pete Turner  56:55  
Figure out I like to say figure out where the A's are. And this is in general in life, like, maybe you work to pay the bills, but that doesn't define who you are. Go out and and skin die for abalone if you're into. And if you're not into it, find out by trying it, you know, whatever that thing is. Life is life is about doing not about watching and that kind of thing.

Ed Hiner  57:15  
Absolutely, man. And I know, passionate. You know what trying to talk to people about leadership about that is passionate, because a lot of people they go they get in those jobs, especially if they're making a lot of money. Yeah, it's almost like heroin, you can't give it up. You got to want it. You're hooked on it. Yeah. So is to reshare instead of sitting there dreaming about, you know, I'm 40 years old, I'm dreaming about it. I'm 65 I can retire. And I can go fishing every day. Because most people don't do that when I retired like that exhausted, but is to, you know, kind of learn to love what you're doing. And that's why I think teaching leadership to people's like, well, if you focus on leadership, focus on people, others focus, you know, just like me in the back of that helicopter with a mom, then you can be passionate about that. Instead of going on, you know, tapping that clock waiting to get out of their way to go watch and pass on. It's like a lot, find your passion where you're at.

Pete Turner  58:03  
Yeah, yeah. And then to spend time pursuing the happiness thing because you don't want to be 65 and go Okay, now, what am I going to do? You should be building a ramp, like, this is what I can't wait to do. You know, I'm, I'm working in this thing. tolerating it, whatever, even if you love your job, but I'm not going to do this forever. Like I love podcasting. I don't know, that'll do it forever. I want to gather stories and tell them but they have to be in this form. Maybe I do something else. And there's probably something beyond this.

Ed Hiner  58:30  
Yeah. You know, that I'll end up doing so. You never know. That's exciting part of it. Yeah. No. Yeah.

Pete Turner  58:33  
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ed Hiner  58:35  
Progress is happiness.

Pete Turner  58:37  
First off, I love coming to all town. It's great. It's cool. I love it. probably

Ed Hiner  58:40  
hear the music in the background? I hope so. Yeah.

Pete Turner  58:42  
Yeah. I mean, it's great. And it's just neat to be able to share these stories, man, because like, guys like us, we've seen a lot of hard things. But, you know, we can always if we can withstand the things that we've seen, then folks out there and listening land, whether whatever country they're in, there's something that you one more thing you can do today. So make yourself and improve or to help someone or work on that project you've been putting off.

Unknown Speaker  59:05  
Now, that's fair? Well, I'd say you know, the one thing I'm really take to change people's lives is that practicing gratitude when you first come conscious in the morning, when you wake up, time yourself, yes, the challenge. How long does it take you to get this thank God or think, whatever, whatever be grateful to be alive. Yeah, sometimes it might take 30 minutes. Sometimes I'm like, all day, or once you get good at it within a moment of being conscious. I'll think about it. Yeah. And that sets my mindset

Pete Turner  59:31  
for that day. Mindfulness is such a big thing. It saved my life for sure.

Unknown Speaker  59:34  
It's huge, simple, hard to do, because people you know, people lip services, but you like do

Pete Turner  59:40  
it just get shot. I often micro I do, like micro mindfulness or a micro meditation, you know, red light, I'll take a deep breath. And I try to just lift myself out of this the moment that I'm in I'm struggling, and even if I'm not I try to do it several times a day, just just micro meditation, and I swear it else does. You know? What's the next coming on man? I appreciate you.

Ed Hiner  1:00:07  
Right on brother. Who y'ah