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Jason Keller - Ford Vs Ferrari Writing a Legend - For 10 years, longer than the story he told, Jason Keller dug in and made something wonderful. More than a movie, Ford vs Ferrari captures a moment in time when audacity met elegance and the impossible happened.
Ford Vs Ferrari is an Oscar-nominated (best picture, best film editing, best sound editing, best sound mixing) movie starring Matt Damon and Christian Bale, about two gigantic personalities from the 20th century; Caroll Shelby and Ken Miles. Jason shares writing credit with John and Jez Butterworth fellow Hollywood screenwriters. |
Jason joins Pete A Turner, best-selling/award-winning author Scott Huesing and fellow Hollywood screenwriter Hilliard Guess.
#movies #screenwriting #story #hilliardguess #scotthuesing #peteaturner #jasonkeller #annavoccino #fordvsferrari #mattdamon #christianbale #johnbutterword #jezbutterworth #ford #ferrari #racing #podcast #breakitdownshow #peteaturnersbreakitdownsow
Haiku
A 10-year process
A racetrack antagonist
Ford V Ferrari
Join us in supporting Save the Brave by making a monthly donation.
Executive Producer/Host: Pete A. Turner
Producer: Damjan Gjorgjiev
Writer: Bojan Spasovski
#movies #screenwriting #story #hilliardguess #scotthuesing #peteaturner #jasonkeller #annavoccino #fordvsferrari #mattdamon #christianbale #johnbutterword #jezbutterworth #ford #ferrari #racing #podcast #breakitdownshow #peteaturnersbreakitdownsow
Haiku
A 10-year process
A racetrack antagonist
Ford V Ferrari
Join us in supporting Save the Brave by making a monthly donation.
Executive Producer/Host: Pete A. Turner
Producer: Damjan Gjorgjiev
Writer: Bojan Spasovski
Transcript
Pete Turner 0:32
Come hell my race car guy. I have my friends and I have a shitty race car all the time. And so we love these kinds of movies. And I'm amazed and Scott proved the point to me. I'm amazed you can even get a movie like this make because it's about my mind's racing and endurance racing is so different than NASCAR and it's so different than Formula One. But the whole the whole thing about endurance racing as a guy that does it is you can't you can drive the car faster, but Absolutely will break sooner.
Come hell my race car guy. I have my friends and I have a shitty race car all the time. And so we love these kinds of movies. And I'm amazed and Scott proved the point to me. I'm amazed you can even get a movie like this make because it's about my mind's racing and endurance racing is so different than NASCAR and it's so different than Formula One. But the whole the whole thing about endurance racing as a guy that does it is you can't you can drive the car faster, but Absolutely will break sooner.
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Lions rock productions
Unknown Speaker 0:05
This is Jay Mohr
Unknown Speaker 0:06
and this is Jordan. Dexter from the offspring naked me Sebastian youngsters, Rick maronna Stewart
Unknown Speaker 0:11
Copeland is handy
Unknown Speaker 0:12
somebody there's a skunk Baxter.
Unknown Speaker 0:14
Gabby Reese is Rob bell. This is john Leon Guerrero. Hey,
Pete Turner 0:16
and this is Pete a Turner.
Jason Keller 0:20
Hey, this is Jason Keller, you're listening to the break it down show.
Pete Turner 0:26
Holy shit. The guy that wrote Ford versus Ferrari is sitting in front of Scott and I right now,
scott huesing 0:31
right there.
Pete Turner 0:32
Come hell my race car guy. I have my friends and I have a shitty race car all the time. And so we love these kinds of movies. And I'm amazed and Scott proved the point to me. I'm amazed you can even get a movie like this make because it's about my mind's racing and endurance racing is so different than NASCAR and it's so different than Formula One. But the whole the whole thing about endurance racing as a guy that does it is you can't you can drive the car faster, but Absolutely will break sooner. Right? I'll see you're always trying to find that point of performance fuel economy of India keeping the gearbox from being 1000 races.
scott huesing 1:09
Yeah, we werewe we re talking about how do you get a movie like that made in, in a market that maybe is not keen on car racing. But yeah, I started a bunch of examples of what was the driving factor. That's a good pun, by the way.
Jason Keller 1:22
Oh, that' s nice. That was icon that. Well, I mean, I also want to talk to you about being an actual racecar driver. Okay. I mean, that's got you know, I'm a writer who wrote a movie about race, but you actually raced race cars, which I haven't done really, you know, this was, it was a tricky one to get made. I mean, it took I came out of the project 10 years ago. You know, I and that people always love the story. You know, it's a true story. I think it was one of the great sporting stories of the, you know, 20th century really, I mean, it just was so full of character and, you know, it was, you know, it was just rich at every level. But it wasn't a sort of franchisable title. It involved period racecar beard race cars, which you know, would have had to have been built, you know, which they did. It was very difficult. You know, what happened was, you know, years and years of writing that script, and I share a writing credit with the Butterworth brothers who came in and you know, did some great work on it. It kept distilling down to the characters. You know, it went from a big racecar movie with a great story at its center and great characters as it started to distill down to what eventually became Carol Shelby and Ken miles and their relationship and that was really, you know, what, you know, one of the things that that enabled that movie to get made is that it was this beautiful sort of love story between two guys. You know what I mean? And guy like James Mangold comes along and says, He wants to direct that for his next movie. And, you know, he gets two fantastic actors to play Shelby and miles. And, you know, you sort of off to the races. But I think the thing that always that we always loved and I'm talking about everybody who's involved in this movie for the last 10 years, you know, was that there were characters at the center of this story that were real characters that were compelling. And, and that's really what kept it alive. I think for the last decade. Yeah,
scott huesing 3:28
me characters drive everything, of course. Absolutely. I don't know. What did you love racing movies growing up? Do you have a few that you compare that your film gets compared to that?
Jason Keller 3:39
Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say I was a huge racing film fan. I mean, I you know, I there are racing films I love but I grew up in Indianapolis. So and my, my grandparents lived in Speedway, Indiana. So from, you know, I think I went to the Annapolis 500 when I was maybe for someone Maybe nine or something like that nine or 10. And have been to that race so many times. I mean, just part of my growing up is tracking to that race every May. And, you know, watching those cars and feeling the thump of those engines, you know, in my chest, so, so to say that Racing's in my blood is not true, but it's in my history. You know what I mean? I think it's anybody who's from Indiana, which is where I'm from. knows that come may you are racing fan. I mean, you can't escape it.
scott huesing 4:34
You know, you're just a big ticket item out there. So
Jason Keller 4:36
yeah, that was huge. I mean, just the whole the state shuts down for the month of May and everybody looks at that. So, you know, this story kind of spoke to me because it sort of reminded me of growing up in Indiana, I think.
Pete Turner 4:49
Yeah. And you said Muncie area, Muncie slap shifters are made in Muncie, Indiana, if I'm not mistaken. What is Muncie like drag shifter slap shifters. Oh, those are made in months. Are they really? So? Yeah, I was at one time, you know?
Jason Keller 5:03
Yeah. That's funny. That's right. There's like three speed. Those are like those the three speed. I
Pete Turner 5:08
think it's like all kinds. Yeah. Anything to get into gear quicker. Right. Right. Right, which is a good segue into the question I want to ask you. So Carol Shelby and all these guys Edelbrock all these guys that learned how to build faster race cars all come out of World War Two, that kind of era. Yeah. And they just had this this. They just kept pushing cars and pushing cars and developing new things. And Carol Shelby is on our race team. We have a guy, Dave Montoya. And he's sort of, you know, he's sort of our Carroll Shelby, he understands what the car needs to do. And if he says, we're going to race, then we're going to race and if he's not bought into it, then we're not going to race. You mean if the cars read a car? Yeah, get a car ready. Like it's always impossible. Everybody's got lives and kids and not enough money. And then at some point, he'll say, this is going to happen and then we all can buy in on it. Carol Shelby is that guy in the story and he's a force of nature. He's a great racecar driver. He's a visionary, but most importantly, he's a leader. And he's just he's from Texas, so it's just so fucking American. You nail it right? I think at least you don't make him tropi. And like, you know, Aubrey going to get the famous gonna happen. Right, right. Right, you come right up next to that point where like, you really can believe in this guy. And he's not he's not too much. Right. Which anymore, he would have been too much. Yeah,
Jason Keller 6:24
I think that's true. And that's a testament to jimang gold and Matt Damon, you know, I think if anything, we pulled back on the real Carol Shelby, for sure. Right. I mean, you know, you know about it. He was this guy was, you know, he was a, you know, he, you know, he was an impresario. I mean, he this guy was bigger than life. And I don't think he could have put that on film. The way he really was. I don't think anybody would have believed it, you know, that. He was that kind of a character, you know, get fascinating guy. Just a fascinating guy. I mean, as a racecar driver. You're you've grown up with Carol Shelby. Sure. Yeah,
Pete Turner 7:02
absolutely. Yeah. I mean you, you know he he was so viable when Ford was done with him. Leah Coke is like well come on over to DOD put turbos in dodge omnis, right? We're gonna call that the GL HS goes like hell some more. That's an actual thing. Is that right? I swear to God, that's true. A dodge Omni with extra turbos
Jason Keller 7:21
on it. That's an Iacocca special.
Pete Turner 7:23
Yeah. He jammed that up. And yeah, didn't Carol Shelby
scott huesing 7:26
another car not accused of winning any beauty contests?
Unknown Speaker 7:29
Right. Right. Right.
Pete Turner 7:31
But there is a lot of that American, you know, superpowered. I'll be damned. I mean, look, they take on. Yeah, they take on Ferrari. And they have no business winning within a year or two of when they start this project, but they do,
Jason Keller 7:44
you know, at stake. You know, it was a grudge match between, you know, Henry Ford, the second and Enzo Ferrari, but at stake it became so much more it was nationalism. You know, it was you know, it was a Really a moment before globalism started to sort of take over. I mean, this is this is 100 for the second opportunity to sort of expand into Europe. You know, and and there was just an American spirit behind this story. And this moment that was undeniable. And and I mean, hopefully that comes out in the movie, it certainly was a point of inspiration for me, and sort of digging deeper into the stories just how quintessentially American you know, the story was, it was and
scott huesing 8:32
you said, You alluded earlier 10 years into the project. So when did you first sink your teeth into the story and then talk a little bit about that, that process and the research that goes into that? Because when people sit down and watch 90 minutes on the big screen, right, they see 90 minutes they don't see 10 years if that's what it was. So what was your
Jason Keller 8:51
you know, I was Fox approached me, you know, almost 10 years ago. With this story, I didn't know about the story. I'd known about Carol Shelby, I'd known about a few of these racers, you know, that I, you know, became more acquainted with as I researched the project. But I didn't know about this particular story 10 years ago, fox said, Look, we think there's a movie here. And I started writing. And it was a tricky one, right? Because the story is so much bigger than the 90 minutes, you see. And it's, and it's so much bigger even than Shelby and Ken miles. I mean, you know, it involves, you know, the Ferrari side was every bit as compelling in my view, as what was happening on the American side. I mean, so as I dug deeper into this idea of Look, there was a real battle in 6465 and 66. To when lemme, I started to uncover all these incredible characters and stories on both sides of the Atlantic in order to mean I mean, you know, on the Ferrari side, there was, you know, Phil Hill, who's one of the great racecar drivers in History who's racing for Ferrari at the time? There's john Surtees, who was the great English motorcycle racer who became a Ferrari team member who was one of the Great's of all time. They were happening at the same time that Shelby and miles and you know, Phil Remington and these guys were trying to build this Ford team, you know, there was this equally incredible drama that was unfolding on the other side of the Atlantic. And so you're talking about process. The, the difficult thing for me was, what story do I tell? You know, there's so many incredible characters here. And what do I it wasn't immediately apparent that this was a carol Shelby Ken miles. Yeah,
scott huesing 10:45
not not just whose story but what story because you've got the business. You've got the racing, you got the drama, the personal struggle, competition. Yeah.
Jason Keller 10:56
I mean, it's a good problem to have, right? As you're a writer. It's like you You want to have Too much story to tell. But that's what I found in those early years. You know, I think my first draft that I turned into the studio was, you know, 200 plus pages long.
scott huesing 11:10
Well, it was like 220 pages. What's the norm as well? 120
Jason Keller 11:15
Yeah, like one Hillier? They'll tell you it's like, once Yeah, you want to, you know, the probably the less better. A studio executive doesn't want to get a 220 page script on their desk. You know what I mean? They kind of go, oh, what's happening? You know,
Pete Turner 11:30
and you have a lot. So the character killer, Carol Shelby, bigger than the screen already. And 10 miles is incredible. By the way, this international team and they got this absolute force of nature and this absolute genius at driving and building standard cars. Oh, and by the way, McLaren Oh, and by the way of Phil Hill and all these other people that are racing legends, I mean, McLaren's have a name for a reason.
Unknown Speaker 11:52
Yeah, right. person.
Pete Turner 11:54
Yeah. attached to that. Yeah. How do you how do you gracefully include those guys? Guys who deserve a story into this? You know, I mean Enzo Ferrari is in it, but only barely.
Jason Keller 12:05
Yeah, yeah. That was that was hard. I mean, it was hard for all of us and I, you know, I include, you know, my co writers in that and Jim mangled in that in the studio. I mean, it was it was, it was difficult to, you know, sort of zero in on exactly the line we wanted to, you know, explore. We always knew that Ken miles was the most fascinating character of all of them. I felt so you know, I didn't know Ken miles was before I started looking into this story, right. And although he's well known in races, I don't know if you knew of,
Pete Turner 12:44
I knew of him, but he knew that he had done yeah,
Jason Keller 12:46
I didn't so so as I'm sort of, you know, doing this research and uncovering this. I felt like I was, you know, discovering Mozart for the first time, right? Of course, I wasn't right. Right and people know of this guy, and he's well regarded as one of the Great's of all time. But here I was discovering this 45 year old virtuoso behind the wheel of car who was destined for obscurity. I mean, this guy was not met until this story, grabbed him right until Carol Shelby tapped him on the shoulder and said, I need your help. He was going to die in North Hollywood. Yeah. In complete obscurity. So here, I was kind of, you know, digging into this, and there's very, there was very little written about him. I mean, very few people sort of, you know, have researched him and, but I started to hear about this guy and look into him. And I was just captivated by him. So I, I always knew that he was, you know, at the center of the story in some way, but it became really difficult, right? Because you have Bruce McLaren, who's there who's really reduced to very little in the movie, right? Right. But he was one of the great racecar drivers of all time. And the just the list goes on and on and on with the story. And that's, you know, you asked sort of the development process. That was what was tricky. I, it was hard for me as the first writer on this for years to, you know, to jettison characters and storylines because as I got deeper into it, like you, I just had such profound respect for these names that I was becoming familiar with and what they had accomplished. It became really fucking hard.
scott huesing 14:29
Yeah, I find you become a disciple of different cultures and communities that you know nothing about right and you jump into the water like, NASCAR racing, or religion or whatever, whatever it is, you just get immersed into is a, which starts is kind of a cool idea and then develops into research projects. And you're like, I gotta tell that story. And like, there's so many stories I want to tell you like, Yeah, I'd like to tell McLaren story. I'd like to tell the story. But you have to tell a snapshot in time and keep it to that. No, that's going to satisfy people I think is a challenge and The creative process is cool too but we were talking about before we started recording today is some of the challenges that come along with that from guys who are big in the industry I think seem pretty protected with what they write in their content you had people tell me you had some some speed bumps there's another pond man there's a shot of a can't
Pete Turner 15:20
You can't help yourself just happen myself
scott huesing 15:25
a couple speed bumps with with the with the writing and the credits and all that and I'd like to hear that that side of the story because for people who want to be writers or screenwriters, especially as you've got intellectual property, you've got ideas and you write them down and you always think that people are trusting in this industry and you know, newsflash one on one it it's not the case all the time. And yeah, it's got to be you have to be careful. And you have to also surround yourself with great people. So yeah, how
Jason Keller 15:54
was that for you? Well, you know, absolutely. I think we could talk about Ford versus Ferrari, but you know, specifically but but also I think generally, you know, feature writers in this town are treated very differently you know, I I have found that we're not we're not invited to interact with one another in a in a sort of supportive way he'll yours laughing yeah Hilliard Hilliard and I we want to we actually want to fight right now because he's a fellow. I know
Unknown Speaker 16:28
he's coming.
Unknown Speaker 16:29
He's coming in I
scott huesing 16:33
guess and we're in his office here on the lot and for most of
Unknown Speaker 16:38
you couldn't help yourself right. Maybe angles
HIlliard Guess 16:41
are having too much fun.
Jason Keller 16:44
But you know, we and chime in and let me know if you if you feel this way, too. I've found that feature writers in this town are we're we're separated, right? We we are. You know, I think the town believes That we can't get along or we're very, you know, we're temperamental, and, you know, failure comes in after me as a writer, I'm going to be angry at him or we're not going to be able to kind of talk about a project, but it's this very bizarre sort of sense of feature writers. And, you know, not not wanting to get along and work together and and
HIlliard Guess 17:27
I think it's more isolated, though, then. That's
Jason Keller 17:29
why it's very isolating.
HIlliard Guess 17:30
I was gonna say, it reminds me the reason why I want to jump in because I get excited about this. And here's why. So I interview a lot of the a list writers at the Writers Guild, you know, for their screenings and stuff like I was going to do yours, actually. And then something came up. But so so what I found is sometimes when I interview writers when there's a first writer, and there's a second writer, third writer, whatever, and they've actually never met each other until we do the screening often and I'm responsible for talking to them right. You know, to me bringing them together and they're looking at each other. Like I don't even know what he freakin wrote. Like, I've been in situations where it's actually uncomfortable. Oh, wow. And so what I found, and I noticed, like whenever I do a writing assignment for anybody, the first thing I do this my question for you, is I call them even if they don't know, right, just reach out to the go, Hey, let you know I'm taking over, you know, so that there's no weird if the town is too small, it's too small. Yeah. So what was your thought on that? I think it's always do it though.
Jason Keller 18:30
You can't always do it. But I think it's a great practice. And and I even I even think it's what is best for the project, you know, and I tried to do this last year on a thing where I was approached by a studio to jump in on a project that had already had a couple writers come in on it. And two of the three writers that were ahead of me, I knew and the last writer ahead of me, I knew really well very talented guy. And you know, friend of mine indirectly. I mean, we were close friends, but I knew in And we'd spoken many times. And I went to the studio and I said, Look, I have ideas for how to improve this project. I don't think I have all the answers. Why don't you let me call the previous writer? I know, um, and let's, once you let us know, because he may be had some
HIlliard Guess 19:18
That's really nice of you,
Jason Keller 19:19
well,
HIlliard Guess 19:21
people don't do it. Don't do it.
Jason Keller 19:23
They don't do it. But But here's the thing, it only serves me. Right. And it serves the project in a better way. And, and I ended up doing it right. And it was helpful, but typically, a studio will say, No, don't you know, what do you know, we've already been down the road with that writer or, you know, some, you know, whatever happened, it's very, you know, it's it. You know, I don't think this town utilizes feature writers as effectively as they could. I don't know what the fix is, but but, you know, if you and I are trying to solve a problem, you know, I think that you and I probably have a better chance at solving the problem is writers then just need your TV to write. I just started doing
HIlliard Guess 20:06
okay. Sometimes you have a mindset that's a little bit more
Jason Keller 20:11
inclusive.
HIlliard Guess 20:12
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that the thought it maybe it is the old school way and I'm going to jump over No, no. I got my man on the show I got to talk to.
But But I do find it fascinating to me, that that I think that the industry has been taught that, you know, we're already the first people to go like, do you not even hardly invited on the set? You're not invited to the screening. Jimmy. There's like so many different things, you know, so I mean, it's crazy and film, they have no respect for the writers whatsoever. I can go on and on. But
scott huesing 20:42
I think the irony too is there would be no project without somebody taking that and and actually putting their fingers on that keyboard and writing something down, to even deviate from and to get back to the question two, which is great. Is isn't it really at the end of the day about the credits You're competing for I don't know if it's about the lion's share of the pie when it comes to cash. But the credit and where the writer gets his name on the screen is kind of what I was, was digging in. Where were you were in a battle about credit who's getting credit for Ford versus Ferrari.
HIlliard Guess 21:16
Well, especially on yours, like you see the end, and that it gets crazy.
Jason Keller 21:21
I mean, we didn't, you know, part of your question, I think is arbitration. You know, we didn't arbitrate Ford versus Ferrari. We that didn't go to arbitration the writers and we the other writers, two brothers, very talented guys, Jess and john Henry Butterworth, we agreed to share credit because we didn't want to go through an arbitration process. I have been through many arbitration process is terrible. It you always bleed, even if you win. It is a bloody exercise and it is, and it's unruly. And it's and it's, it's imperfect. I don't, you know, it's the best it can be I think, but you know, that that process As it is about credit you know it is about you know if you're if you're in an if you've spent eight months of your life you know rewriting a script and you feel like you deserve credit on it you know you need to fight for credit and I mean it's this is
scott huesing 22:16
it's a tough it's a tough I'd like to hear your guys thoughts and see because it's really tough as we're we're talking about writing is you create a you create this product whether the screenplay short story in the app that ID and you you at least for me it was guarding it and soccer mom it's a point where I don't want to share with Hillier because he might steal that idea this and and even with my first book that came out I've been immersed in that is through the legal process and and having to deal with unscrupulous people and you're right, I want another one. But I still have thousands of bucks to pay my attorney and you know, that cuts into your profits and it said it's an ugly side of the business. So now as I move forward, as you know, helping other veteran authors at least My Space is where anybody is get it in writing. So no one's feelings get hurt at the end of the day. And I, I say that to protect myself and protect everybody. And I think that that is something that a lot of people get into the business. They don't think about this either. Business.
HIlliard Guess 23:17
Well, there's a lot of simple things. I don't mean to please jump in. There's a lot of simple things you can do. Like I come from the indie world, right? And now I'm doing much bigger stuff. But even in that world, say I'd meet a producer here, right now the Hey, you know, we heard your writer ba, ba, ba, love for you to write this thing. And we have a great conversation. They find out what my quote is, and whatever. And I'm like, it's this blah, blah, blah. And then I send them an email that night going, Hey, here's what we talked about. Right? It's like a reminder, and that is also your stamp. And I always say if you agree, say yeah, so we're having fun. And then they say yes, and then I can go on to my lawyers, my agents, everybody else and move on from there, but at least I started the process. legit You know, I mean, going, here's the project I have, we had this conversation, here's all the things we talked about. And you know, over time you start to understand what the contracts are in general, you can kind of do it yourself. Yeah, you know, so you start to figure that out. So I know what to ask for. I know what to and then they just have to kind of really negotiate. But I just put the basic terms in there. You know, the portrayals are always right.
scott huesing 24:21
It's always good to have an
HIlliard Guess 24:22
email. An email.
Jason Keller 24:24
Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
scott huesing 24:26
What's it, I'm sure like many people gets hit up by people. He was just talking about, he's going to Palm Springs. This guy wants to be home with the podcast and they want to start this. I'm sure you guys get inundated with people sending emails and saying, Oh, yeah, I want to write a screenplay. What's your threshold from some friendly advice to Well, this isn't a hobby for me. If I'm going to give you notes or I'm going to give you like an expect credit. Well,
Jason Keller 24:53
I sent me is a good question. You know that I'm I love writers. I'm supportive of writers. I love talking to writers I, you know, I love the creative process. I love talking to authors, painters, I just, I love, I love those kind of people I love, you know, anybody who's sort of willing to kind of be vulnerable and and, and put it down on paper or on a Can I just love that, right? If you're talking about somebody who's sending me a script, and it occasionally happens, I mean, to your point earlier, it's like you, I do have to be careful about what I'm, if this is a close friend, it doesn't doesn't count. Right. But, you know, if somebody I mean, like it, you know, a couple times a year, somebody might do this, they might get my email, send me something, just, you know, in my inbox, I am very careful about not reading that or calling them and sort of having a talk with them about it because it's just, you know, to your point, you just want to end your point, you know, you just want to be very clear about what what you're getting into and you know, it's very if
HIlliard Guess 26:03
they assume once they sent it to you that you did look at it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get about 100 a day from my company and it's crazy. Just assume that you read it. So I have to say, we do not solicit. You have to make sure you say it, you know, to me, but every Blue Moon, you'll read something, but like I said, that's a good log. That's pretty good.
Jason Keller 26:21
Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm so love when people I like it, when people come saying, I have this idea for a movie, it might not be a great idea. But every, you know, occasionally, it's like, that's a really great idea. Yeah, for a world you know, and if it is, you know, I'll I'll, you know, I'll talk to them further about it and see if something happens with it. But, you know, you never know where the great idea is gonna come from.
Pete Turner 26:44
Yeah, I thought a great chat, by the way, and I knew I told you guys that he would not be able to
HIlliard Guess 26:50
say this, though. Check this out. Backing up on what you're talking about, about I think that newer writers, I'm sure you agree. Newer writers have this thing that you know, we don't want anybody to see it. Whatever it was, all of us who've been writing for years, like, read it, I don't care. I'm not what you know, I'm not worried about it at all. Yeah, no matter who gets it, no matter, even if I didn't register yet, I'm just not even concerned. Because it's all about execution. You know, I mean, the way he's an amazing writer I read the script is amazing. But I'm like that I like to know what's going on and who How did you do the action that has described the driving scenes? And so for me, his execution is different than mine. Right? I might take some stuff from his because like, the way he you know, does this little cool move or the way that the that he describes this or does that and, and, but the way that we might open the script may be different. But you know, the way we might introduce the characters, the movement, the transitions, all these things are different. So for me, you can take my idea, you won't be able to execute it the way that I can. And that's why I don't worry about and a lot of my other friends you probably feel the same way. You just don't. I'm not worried about you. Where I got that from and I think you've heard me talking about me. Before I ever had an office I used to be at the coffee shops in West Hollywood you know the gate friggin Mecca here. Yeah, was all I used to sit across from Lance black when he was writing note, and this is something he says everybody says, not just my story, but he talks about I use always asked me where were you and he's like, Oh, I was in San Francisco, you know, working on this, you know, research and nothing like that. They're like three other movies.
Lions rock productions
Unknown Speaker 0:05
This is Jay Mohr
Unknown Speaker 0:06
and this is Jordan. Dexter from the offspring naked me Sebastian youngsters, Rick maronna Stewart
Unknown Speaker 0:11
Copeland is handy
Unknown Speaker 0:12
somebody there's a skunk Baxter.
Unknown Speaker 0:14
Gabby Reese is Rob bell. This is john Leon Guerrero. Hey,
Pete Turner 0:16
and this is Pete a Turner.
Jason Keller 0:20
Hey, this is Jason Keller, you're listening to the break it down show.
Pete Turner 0:26
Holy shit. The guy that wrote Ford versus Ferrari is sitting in front of Scott and I right now,
scott huesing 0:31
right there.
Pete Turner 0:32
Come hell my race car guy. I have my friends and I have a shitty race car all the time. And so we love these kinds of movies. And I'm amazed and Scott proved the point to me. I'm amazed you can even get a movie like this make because it's about my mind's racing and endurance racing is so different than NASCAR and it's so different than Formula One. But the whole the whole thing about endurance racing as a guy that does it is you can't you can drive the car faster, but Absolutely will break sooner. Right? I'll see you're always trying to find that point of performance fuel economy of India keeping the gearbox from being 1000 races.
scott huesing 1:09
Yeah, we werewe we re talking about how do you get a movie like that made in, in a market that maybe is not keen on car racing. But yeah, I started a bunch of examples of what was the driving factor. That's a good pun, by the way.
Jason Keller 1:22
Oh, that' s nice. That was icon that. Well, I mean, I also want to talk to you about being an actual racecar driver. Okay. I mean, that's got you know, I'm a writer who wrote a movie about race, but you actually raced race cars, which I haven't done really, you know, this was, it was a tricky one to get made. I mean, it took I came out of the project 10 years ago. You know, I and that people always love the story. You know, it's a true story. I think it was one of the great sporting stories of the, you know, 20th century really, I mean, it just was so full of character and, you know, it was, you know, it was just rich at every level. But it wasn't a sort of franchisable title. It involved period racecar beard race cars, which you know, would have had to have been built, you know, which they did. It was very difficult. You know, what happened was, you know, years and years of writing that script, and I share a writing credit with the Butterworth brothers who came in and you know, did some great work on it. It kept distilling down to the characters. You know, it went from a big racecar movie with a great story at its center and great characters as it started to distill down to what eventually became Carol Shelby and Ken miles and their relationship and that was really, you know, what, you know, one of the things that that enabled that movie to get made is that it was this beautiful sort of love story between two guys. You know what I mean? And guy like James Mangold comes along and says, He wants to direct that for his next movie. And, you know, he gets two fantastic actors to play Shelby and miles. And, you know, you sort of off to the races. But I think the thing that always that we always loved and I'm talking about everybody who's involved in this movie for the last 10 years, you know, was that there were characters at the center of this story that were real characters that were compelling. And, and that's really what kept it alive. I think for the last decade. Yeah,
scott huesing 3:28
me characters drive everything, of course. Absolutely. I don't know. What did you love racing movies growing up? Do you have a few that you compare that your film gets compared to that?
Jason Keller 3:39
Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say I was a huge racing film fan. I mean, I you know, I there are racing films I love but I grew up in Indianapolis. So and my, my grandparents lived in Speedway, Indiana. So from, you know, I think I went to the Annapolis 500 when I was maybe for someone Maybe nine or something like that nine or 10. And have been to that race so many times. I mean, just part of my growing up is tracking to that race every May. And, you know, watching those cars and feeling the thump of those engines, you know, in my chest, so, so to say that Racing's in my blood is not true, but it's in my history. You know what I mean? I think it's anybody who's from Indiana, which is where I'm from. knows that come may you are racing fan. I mean, you can't escape it.
scott huesing 4:34
You know, you're just a big ticket item out there. So
Jason Keller 4:36
yeah, that was huge. I mean, just the whole the state shuts down for the month of May and everybody looks at that. So, you know, this story kind of spoke to me because it sort of reminded me of growing up in Indiana, I think.
Pete Turner 4:49
Yeah. And you said Muncie area, Muncie slap shifters are made in Muncie, Indiana, if I'm not mistaken. What is Muncie like drag shifter slap shifters. Oh, those are made in months. Are they really? So? Yeah, I was at one time, you know?
Jason Keller 5:03
Yeah. That's funny. That's right. There's like three speed. Those are like those the three speed. I
Pete Turner 5:08
think it's like all kinds. Yeah. Anything to get into gear quicker. Right. Right. Right, which is a good segue into the question I want to ask you. So Carol Shelby and all these guys Edelbrock all these guys that learned how to build faster race cars all come out of World War Two, that kind of era. Yeah. And they just had this this. They just kept pushing cars and pushing cars and developing new things. And Carol Shelby is on our race team. We have a guy, Dave Montoya. And he's sort of, you know, he's sort of our Carroll Shelby, he understands what the car needs to do. And if he says, we're going to race, then we're going to race and if he's not bought into it, then we're not going to race. You mean if the cars read a car? Yeah, get a car ready. Like it's always impossible. Everybody's got lives and kids and not enough money. And then at some point, he'll say, this is going to happen and then we all can buy in on it. Carol Shelby is that guy in the story and he's a force of nature. He's a great racecar driver. He's a visionary, but most importantly, he's a leader. And he's just he's from Texas, so it's just so fucking American. You nail it right? I think at least you don't make him tropi. And like, you know, Aubrey going to get the famous gonna happen. Right, right. Right, you come right up next to that point where like, you really can believe in this guy. And he's not he's not too much. Right. Which anymore, he would have been too much. Yeah,
Jason Keller 6:24
I think that's true. And that's a testament to jimang gold and Matt Damon, you know, I think if anything, we pulled back on the real Carol Shelby, for sure. Right. I mean, you know, you know about it. He was this guy was, you know, he was a, you know, he, you know, he was an impresario. I mean, he this guy was bigger than life. And I don't think he could have put that on film. The way he really was. I don't think anybody would have believed it, you know, that. He was that kind of a character, you know, get fascinating guy. Just a fascinating guy. I mean, as a racecar driver. You're you've grown up with Carol Shelby. Sure. Yeah,
Pete Turner 7:02
absolutely. Yeah. I mean you, you know he he was so viable when Ford was done with him. Leah Coke is like well come on over to DOD put turbos in dodge omnis, right? We're gonna call that the GL HS goes like hell some more. That's an actual thing. Is that right? I swear to God, that's true. A dodge Omni with extra turbos
Jason Keller 7:21
on it. That's an Iacocca special.
Pete Turner 7:23
Yeah. He jammed that up. And yeah, didn't Carol Shelby
scott huesing 7:26
another car not accused of winning any beauty contests?
Unknown Speaker 7:29
Right. Right. Right.
Pete Turner 7:31
But there is a lot of that American, you know, superpowered. I'll be damned. I mean, look, they take on. Yeah, they take on Ferrari. And they have no business winning within a year or two of when they start this project, but they do,
Jason Keller 7:44
you know, at stake. You know, it was a grudge match between, you know, Henry Ford, the second and Enzo Ferrari, but at stake it became so much more it was nationalism. You know, it was you know, it was a Really a moment before globalism started to sort of take over. I mean, this is this is 100 for the second opportunity to sort of expand into Europe. You know, and and there was just an American spirit behind this story. And this moment that was undeniable. And and I mean, hopefully that comes out in the movie, it certainly was a point of inspiration for me, and sort of digging deeper into the stories just how quintessentially American you know, the story was, it was and
scott huesing 8:32
you said, You alluded earlier 10 years into the project. So when did you first sink your teeth into the story and then talk a little bit about that, that process and the research that goes into that? Because when people sit down and watch 90 minutes on the big screen, right, they see 90 minutes they don't see 10 years if that's what it was. So what was your
Jason Keller 8:51
you know, I was Fox approached me, you know, almost 10 years ago. With this story, I didn't know about the story. I'd known about Carol Shelby, I'd known about a few of these racers, you know, that I, you know, became more acquainted with as I researched the project. But I didn't know about this particular story 10 years ago, fox said, Look, we think there's a movie here. And I started writing. And it was a tricky one, right? Because the story is so much bigger than the 90 minutes, you see. And it's, and it's so much bigger even than Shelby and Ken miles. I mean, you know, it involves, you know, the Ferrari side was every bit as compelling in my view, as what was happening on the American side. I mean, so as I dug deeper into this idea of Look, there was a real battle in 6465 and 66. To when lemme, I started to uncover all these incredible characters and stories on both sides of the Atlantic in order to mean I mean, you know, on the Ferrari side, there was, you know, Phil Hill, who's one of the great racecar drivers in History who's racing for Ferrari at the time? There's john Surtees, who was the great English motorcycle racer who became a Ferrari team member who was one of the Great's of all time. They were happening at the same time that Shelby and miles and you know, Phil Remington and these guys were trying to build this Ford team, you know, there was this equally incredible drama that was unfolding on the other side of the Atlantic. And so you're talking about process. The, the difficult thing for me was, what story do I tell? You know, there's so many incredible characters here. And what do I it wasn't immediately apparent that this was a carol Shelby Ken miles. Yeah,
scott huesing 10:45
not not just whose story but what story because you've got the business. You've got the racing, you got the drama, the personal struggle, competition. Yeah.
Jason Keller 10:56
I mean, it's a good problem to have, right? As you're a writer. It's like you You want to have Too much story to tell. But that's what I found in those early years. You know, I think my first draft that I turned into the studio was, you know, 200 plus pages long.
scott huesing 11:10
Well, it was like 220 pages. What's the norm as well? 120
Jason Keller 11:15
Yeah, like one Hillier? They'll tell you it's like, once Yeah, you want to, you know, the probably the less better. A studio executive doesn't want to get a 220 page script on their desk. You know what I mean? They kind of go, oh, what's happening? You know,
Pete Turner 11:30
and you have a lot. So the character killer, Carol Shelby, bigger than the screen already. And 10 miles is incredible. By the way, this international team and they got this absolute force of nature and this absolute genius at driving and building standard cars. Oh, and by the way, McLaren Oh, and by the way of Phil Hill and all these other people that are racing legends, I mean, McLaren's have a name for a reason.
Unknown Speaker 11:52
Yeah, right. person.
Pete Turner 11:54
Yeah. attached to that. Yeah. How do you how do you gracefully include those guys? Guys who deserve a story into this? You know, I mean Enzo Ferrari is in it, but only barely.
Jason Keller 12:05
Yeah, yeah. That was that was hard. I mean, it was hard for all of us and I, you know, I include, you know, my co writers in that and Jim mangled in that in the studio. I mean, it was it was, it was difficult to, you know, sort of zero in on exactly the line we wanted to, you know, explore. We always knew that Ken miles was the most fascinating character of all of them. I felt so you know, I didn't know Ken miles was before I started looking into this story, right. And although he's well known in races, I don't know if you knew of,
Pete Turner 12:44
I knew of him, but he knew that he had done yeah,
Jason Keller 12:46
I didn't so so as I'm sort of, you know, doing this research and uncovering this. I felt like I was, you know, discovering Mozart for the first time, right? Of course, I wasn't right. Right and people know of this guy, and he's well regarded as one of the Great's of all time. But here I was discovering this 45 year old virtuoso behind the wheel of car who was destined for obscurity. I mean, this guy was not met until this story, grabbed him right until Carol Shelby tapped him on the shoulder and said, I need your help. He was going to die in North Hollywood. Yeah. In complete obscurity. So here, I was kind of, you know, digging into this, and there's very, there was very little written about him. I mean, very few people sort of, you know, have researched him and, but I started to hear about this guy and look into him. And I was just captivated by him. So I, I always knew that he was, you know, at the center of the story in some way, but it became really difficult, right? Because you have Bruce McLaren, who's there who's really reduced to very little in the movie, right? Right. But he was one of the great racecar drivers of all time. And the just the list goes on and on and on with the story. And that's, you know, you asked sort of the development process. That was what was tricky. I, it was hard for me as the first writer on this for years to, you know, to jettison characters and storylines because as I got deeper into it, like you, I just had such profound respect for these names that I was becoming familiar with and what they had accomplished. It became really fucking hard.
scott huesing 14:29
Yeah, I find you become a disciple of different cultures and communities that you know nothing about right and you jump into the water like, NASCAR racing, or religion or whatever, whatever it is, you just get immersed into is a, which starts is kind of a cool idea and then develops into research projects. And you're like, I gotta tell that story. And like, there's so many stories I want to tell you like, Yeah, I'd like to tell McLaren story. I'd like to tell the story. But you have to tell a snapshot in time and keep it to that. No, that's going to satisfy people I think is a challenge and The creative process is cool too but we were talking about before we started recording today is some of the challenges that come along with that from guys who are big in the industry I think seem pretty protected with what they write in their content you had people tell me you had some some speed bumps there's another pond man there's a shot of a can't
Pete Turner 15:20
You can't help yourself just happen myself
scott huesing 15:25
a couple speed bumps with with the with the writing and the credits and all that and I'd like to hear that that side of the story because for people who want to be writers or screenwriters, especially as you've got intellectual property, you've got ideas and you write them down and you always think that people are trusting in this industry and you know, newsflash one on one it it's not the case all the time. And yeah, it's got to be you have to be careful. And you have to also surround yourself with great people. So yeah, how
Jason Keller 15:54
was that for you? Well, you know, absolutely. I think we could talk about Ford versus Ferrari, but you know, specifically but but also I think generally, you know, feature writers in this town are treated very differently you know, I I have found that we're not we're not invited to interact with one another in a in a sort of supportive way he'll yours laughing yeah Hilliard Hilliard and I we want to we actually want to fight right now because he's a fellow. I know
Unknown Speaker 16:28
he's coming.
Unknown Speaker 16:29
He's coming in I
scott huesing 16:33
guess and we're in his office here on the lot and for most of
Unknown Speaker 16:38
you couldn't help yourself right. Maybe angles
HIlliard Guess 16:41
are having too much fun.
Jason Keller 16:44
But you know, we and chime in and let me know if you if you feel this way, too. I've found that feature writers in this town are we're we're separated, right? We we are. You know, I think the town believes That we can't get along or we're very, you know, we're temperamental, and, you know, failure comes in after me as a writer, I'm going to be angry at him or we're not going to be able to kind of talk about a project, but it's this very bizarre sort of sense of feature writers. And, you know, not not wanting to get along and work together and and
HIlliard Guess 17:27
I think it's more isolated, though, then. That's
Jason Keller 17:29
why it's very isolating.
HIlliard Guess 17:30
I was gonna say, it reminds me the reason why I want to jump in because I get excited about this. And here's why. So I interview a lot of the a list writers at the Writers Guild, you know, for their screenings and stuff like I was going to do yours, actually. And then something came up. But so so what I found is sometimes when I interview writers when there's a first writer, and there's a second writer, third writer, whatever, and they've actually never met each other until we do the screening often and I'm responsible for talking to them right. You know, to me bringing them together and they're looking at each other. Like I don't even know what he freakin wrote. Like, I've been in situations where it's actually uncomfortable. Oh, wow. And so what I found, and I noticed, like whenever I do a writing assignment for anybody, the first thing I do this my question for you, is I call them even if they don't know, right, just reach out to the go, Hey, let you know I'm taking over, you know, so that there's no weird if the town is too small, it's too small. Yeah. So what was your thought on that? I think it's always do it though.
Jason Keller 18:30
You can't always do it. But I think it's a great practice. And and I even I even think it's what is best for the project, you know, and I tried to do this last year on a thing where I was approached by a studio to jump in on a project that had already had a couple writers come in on it. And two of the three writers that were ahead of me, I knew and the last writer ahead of me, I knew really well very talented guy. And you know, friend of mine indirectly. I mean, we were close friends, but I knew in And we'd spoken many times. And I went to the studio and I said, Look, I have ideas for how to improve this project. I don't think I have all the answers. Why don't you let me call the previous writer? I know, um, and let's, once you let us know, because he may be had some
HIlliard Guess 19:18
That's really nice of you,
Jason Keller 19:19
well,
HIlliard Guess 19:21
people don't do it. Don't do it.
Jason Keller 19:23
They don't do it. But But here's the thing, it only serves me. Right. And it serves the project in a better way. And, and I ended up doing it right. And it was helpful, but typically, a studio will say, No, don't you know, what do you know, we've already been down the road with that writer or, you know, some, you know, whatever happened, it's very, you know, it's it. You know, I don't think this town utilizes feature writers as effectively as they could. I don't know what the fix is, but but, you know, if you and I are trying to solve a problem, you know, I think that you and I probably have a better chance at solving the problem is writers then just need your TV to write. I just started doing
HIlliard Guess 20:06
okay. Sometimes you have a mindset that's a little bit more
Jason Keller 20:11
inclusive.
HIlliard Guess 20:12
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that the thought it maybe it is the old school way and I'm going to jump over No, no. I got my man on the show I got to talk to.
But But I do find it fascinating to me, that that I think that the industry has been taught that, you know, we're already the first people to go like, do you not even hardly invited on the set? You're not invited to the screening. Jimmy. There's like so many different things, you know, so I mean, it's crazy and film, they have no respect for the writers whatsoever. I can go on and on. But
scott huesing 20:42
I think the irony too is there would be no project without somebody taking that and and actually putting their fingers on that keyboard and writing something down, to even deviate from and to get back to the question two, which is great. Is isn't it really at the end of the day about the credits You're competing for I don't know if it's about the lion's share of the pie when it comes to cash. But the credit and where the writer gets his name on the screen is kind of what I was, was digging in. Where were you were in a battle about credit who's getting credit for Ford versus Ferrari.
HIlliard Guess 21:16
Well, especially on yours, like you see the end, and that it gets crazy.
Jason Keller 21:21
I mean, we didn't, you know, part of your question, I think is arbitration. You know, we didn't arbitrate Ford versus Ferrari. We that didn't go to arbitration the writers and we the other writers, two brothers, very talented guys, Jess and john Henry Butterworth, we agreed to share credit because we didn't want to go through an arbitration process. I have been through many arbitration process is terrible. It you always bleed, even if you win. It is a bloody exercise and it is, and it's unruly. And it's and it's, it's imperfect. I don't, you know, it's the best it can be I think, but you know, that that process As it is about credit you know it is about you know if you're if you're in an if you've spent eight months of your life you know rewriting a script and you feel like you deserve credit on it you know you need to fight for credit and I mean it's this is
scott huesing 22:16
it's a tough it's a tough I'd like to hear your guys thoughts and see because it's really tough as we're we're talking about writing is you create a you create this product whether the screenplay short story in the app that ID and you you at least for me it was guarding it and soccer mom it's a point where I don't want to share with Hillier because he might steal that idea this and and even with my first book that came out I've been immersed in that is through the legal process and and having to deal with unscrupulous people and you're right, I want another one. But I still have thousands of bucks to pay my attorney and you know, that cuts into your profits and it said it's an ugly side of the business. So now as I move forward, as you know, helping other veteran authors at least My Space is where anybody is get it in writing. So no one's feelings get hurt at the end of the day. And I, I say that to protect myself and protect everybody. And I think that that is something that a lot of people get into the business. They don't think about this either. Business.
HIlliard Guess 23:17
Well, there's a lot of simple things. I don't mean to please jump in. There's a lot of simple things you can do. Like I come from the indie world, right? And now I'm doing much bigger stuff. But even in that world, say I'd meet a producer here, right now the Hey, you know, we heard your writer ba, ba, ba, love for you to write this thing. And we have a great conversation. They find out what my quote is, and whatever. And I'm like, it's this blah, blah, blah. And then I send them an email that night going, Hey, here's what we talked about. Right? It's like a reminder, and that is also your stamp. And I always say if you agree, say yeah, so we're having fun. And then they say yes, and then I can go on to my lawyers, my agents, everybody else and move on from there, but at least I started the process. legit You know, I mean, going, here's the project I have, we had this conversation, here's all the things we talked about. And you know, over time you start to understand what the contracts are in general, you can kind of do it yourself. Yeah, you know, so you start to figure that out. So I know what to ask for. I know what to and then they just have to kind of really negotiate. But I just put the basic terms in there. You know, the portrayals are always right.
scott huesing 24:21
It's always good to have an
HIlliard Guess 24:22
email. An email.
Jason Keller 24:24
Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
scott huesing 24:26
What's it, I'm sure like many people gets hit up by people. He was just talking about, he's going to Palm Springs. This guy wants to be home with the podcast and they want to start this. I'm sure you guys get inundated with people sending emails and saying, Oh, yeah, I want to write a screenplay. What's your threshold from some friendly advice to Well, this isn't a hobby for me. If I'm going to give you notes or I'm going to give you like an expect credit. Well,
Jason Keller 24:53
I sent me is a good question. You know that I'm I love writers. I'm supportive of writers. I love talking to writers I, you know, I love the creative process. I love talking to authors, painters, I just, I love, I love those kind of people I love, you know, anybody who's sort of willing to kind of be vulnerable and and, and put it down on paper or on a Can I just love that, right? If you're talking about somebody who's sending me a script, and it occasionally happens, I mean, to your point earlier, it's like you, I do have to be careful about what I'm, if this is a close friend, it doesn't doesn't count. Right. But, you know, if somebody I mean, like it, you know, a couple times a year, somebody might do this, they might get my email, send me something, just, you know, in my inbox, I am very careful about not reading that or calling them and sort of having a talk with them about it because it's just, you know, to your point, you just want to end your point, you know, you just want to be very clear about what what you're getting into and you know, it's very if
HIlliard Guess 26:03
they assume once they sent it to you that you did look at it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get about 100 a day from my company and it's crazy. Just assume that you read it. So I have to say, we do not solicit. You have to make sure you say it, you know, to me, but every Blue Moon, you'll read something, but like I said, that's a good log. That's pretty good.
Jason Keller 26:21
Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm so love when people I like it, when people come saying, I have this idea for a movie, it might not be a great idea. But every, you know, occasionally, it's like, that's a really great idea. Yeah, for a world you know, and if it is, you know, I'll I'll, you know, I'll talk to them further about it and see if something happens with it. But, you know, you never know where the great idea is gonna come from.
Pete Turner 26:44
Yeah, I thought a great chat, by the way, and I knew I told you guys that he would not be able to
HIlliard Guess 26:50
say this, though. Check this out. Backing up on what you're talking about, about I think that newer writers, I'm sure you agree. Newer writers have this thing that you know, we don't want anybody to see it. Whatever it was, all of us who've been writing for years, like, read it, I don't care. I'm not what you know, I'm not worried about it at all. Yeah, no matter who gets it, no matter, even if I didn't register yet, I'm just not even concerned. Because it's all about execution. You know, I mean, the way he's an amazing writer I read the script is amazing. But I'm like that I like to know what's going on and who How did you do the action that has described the driving scenes? And so for me, his execution is different than mine. Right? I might take some stuff from his because like, the way he you know, does this little cool move or the way that the that he describes this or does that and, and, but the way that we might open the script may be different. But you know, the way we might introduce the characters, the movement, the transitions, all these things are different. So for me, you can take my idea, you won't be able to execute it the way that I can. And that's why I don't worry about and a lot of my other friends you probably feel the same way. You just don't. I'm not worried about you. Where I got that from and I think you've heard me talking about me. Before I ever had an office I used to be at the coffee shops in West Hollywood you know the gate friggin Mecca here. Yeah, was all I used to sit across from Lance black when he was writing note, and this is something he says everybody says, not just my story, but he talks about I use always asked me where were you and he's like, Oh, I was in San Francisco, you know, working on this, you know, research and nothing like that. They're like three other movies.
