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OCN.ai, Using Crypto to Save the Ocean - Jeremy McKane is a fantastic artist. He finds and captures beauty. In particular, Jeremy focuses his art on the underwater world. His unique perspective for art also allowed him to see the impact of humanity on the oceans.
In an effort to do something about the trash he saw, he started working on solutions. He found his way to crypto and decentralized solutions to deploy help to the ocean. He's a question Jeremy is trying to answer...how do we truly close the loop on our plastic consumption? This episode is produced and hosted by Pete A Turner and Sandra Ponce De Leon. Jon Leon Guerrero provides our intro. Along with people like Kaj Larsen, Rudy Reyes and the guys from Force Blue and Jeremy McKane's OCN.ai efforts, there are literally 1000's of people all |
focused on getting the ocean more healthy.
#bids #ocn #crypto #podcast #episode #conservation #ocean #crypto #token
Haiku
Cleaning the ocean
We have to give people hope
Then leverage data
Similar episodes:
Rudy Reyes
Kaj Larsen
Charity on Top
#bids #ocn #crypto #podcast #episode #conservation #ocean #crypto #token
Haiku
Cleaning the ocean
We have to give people hope
Then leverage data
Similar episodes:
Rudy Reyes
Kaj Larsen
Charity on Top
Transcription
Jon Leon Guerrero 0:00
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. Our guest today is artist and photo storyteller Jeremy McKane. He is masterful at cramming loads of life and human emotion in a finite moment into a single frame. And what makes his work even more interesting is that he loves the ocean. He loves water. He loves the life It gives and the way that it amplifies a story focuses intention, and ratchets up the sense of what's important right now. He creates beautiful works that include marine life and people enjoying the ocean often children, whose relationship with water seems more precious and more sincere.
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. Our guest today is artist and photo storyteller Jeremy McKane. He is masterful at cramming loads of life and human emotion in a finite moment into a single frame. And what makes his work even more interesting is that he loves the ocean. He loves water. He loves the life It gives and the way that it amplifies a story focuses intention, and ratchets up the sense of what's important right now. He creates beautiful works that include marine life and people enjoying the ocean often children, whose relationship with water seems more precious and more sincere.
Jon Leon Guerrero 0:00
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. Our guest today is artist and photo storyteller Jeremy McKane. He is masterful at cramming loads of life and human emotion in a finite moment into a single frame. And what makes his work even more interesting is that he loves the ocean. He loves water. He loves the life It gives and the way that it amplifies a story focuses intention, and ratchets up the sense of what's important right now. He creates beautiful works that include marine life and people enjoying the ocean often children, whose relationship with water seems more precious and more sincere. Jeremy is also a technologist and the founder of ocean a blockchain platform with a mission to protect 30% of the world's oceans by 2030. By reducing the cost of enforcement and defining financial value of the oceans resources by listing data and technology firms, to quantum five populations, the temperatures, and other data sets in various parts of the world's oceans. The ocean platform enables developers to collaborate with others around the world to improve conditions everywhere. Now we've had frogman free divers and seafarers on this show. And it's great to have Jeremy on to tell us about his work, protecting and conserving that environment for all of humanity, and all of the life in under and dependent on the see. This episode is co hosted and co produced by our friend Sandra Ponce de Leon. She's always great and she cares deeply about using the advances in technology we see across industries in all of the smartest ways. And if you care deeply about podcasts and great content that makes you smarter or better. Please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you listen to the break it down show. Nothing big, just a few words. Most of all shares with your friends. You know the ones who love the ocean, who love stories and storytellers and who would love to have their ear holes filled with stuff that makes them smarter and more interesting at parties. And now joining Pete and Sandra here's the most interesting guy at any party. Our guest today. Jeremy McKane
Joel Manzer 2:23
lions rock productions
Jay Mohr 2:28
This is Jay Mohr
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naked Sebastian youngsters Rick Morocco Stewart Copeland back sir,
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yeah, Gaby Reese's Rob bell.
Jon Leon Guerrero 2:39
This is Jon Leon Guerrero
Pete Turner 2:39
and this is Pete a Turner
Jeremy McKane 2:44
Hey everyone, this is Jeremy McKane and I'm here on the breakdown show I'm the president ceo of the ocean currency network so thank you guys for having me.
Niko Leon Guerrero 2:54
And now the break it down show with john Leon Guerrero and Pete a Turner.
Pete Turner 3:00
Yeah, this is great. I've got this is sort of a popping the bubble Redux with Sandra co hosting with me and so we don't get enough chance to hang out and chat Sandra but this is always great to do. And I know you're passionate about the ocean. I also am passionate about the ocean actually have another ocean guy coming on next week a guy named posh Larsen and says he does a lot of photography in the ocean seal. But now today we have Jeremy McKean on and talking about his, I guess your path from artistry into the ocean currency network Canada. Actually, I'm going to kick it over to Sandra to let her do a little bit of talking to
Sandra Ponce De Leon 3:38
Yeah, yeah, no, thank you so much for having me, Pete, it's so great to be on the break it down show and I've missed our conversation. So really awesome to have me on as a guest. And I'm so excited to be here. And I'm so excited to talk to Jeremy because we've had several conversations over the course of the last few months. And he is an ocean warrior that leveraging the power of art and technology to make positive impact for the ocean. So, so excited to hear all about what you're up to Jeremy, I guess, you know, a great place to get started would be you know, you talk about yourself as an artist. And I've seen some of your incredible artwork that's available on Instagram at Jeremy McKane. But you know, talk about your journey from artists to now ocean activist.
Jeremy McKane 4:25
Yeah, you know, thanks for saying that. I mean, I will say that as an artist, like, that's the one thing that you always cringe about, you're like, you know, you always make these things, and they're beautiful to you, and you like them, and sometimes you hate them, but you put them out there anyway. And then you're like, oh crap is the rest of the world gonna like this, you know, and then sometimes you just let that go. So it means a great deal to say that you like it. So thank you. I love it. Yeah, so it was just, it was a it was a really weird, strange kind of tournaments. Like, I was always as a kid passionate about the underwater world. And I remember being a little boy and thinking, you know, gosh, I just wish that I could just be a scuba diver as quickly as possible. And so what in ended up happening out of all of this was I did end up going to be a scuba diver, I love doing it. But I wanted to spend more time down there. And the more time that I spent down there, the more I felt like, this was my home. And there was just so many beautiful things. And that just kind of transitioned into art. And I you know, I love the juxtaposition of humans in the ocean. Because I feel like sometimes when we look at really amazing footage, like from Blue Planet, or you know, you know, planet earth or any of these, like really cool things that we can all think of on the top of our heads, we look at these amazing, like natural things. We don't always put the human context in there. But you know, it's almost like it's us versus that we go to the beach, we see this line called the horizon. And, and that's usually where some people stop because they feel like there's bigger things in the ocean to get them. But the truth is, there's so many cool, magnificent things there. So how can I juxtapose those two and, and that was kind of the basis for my artwork. He was a little naive. It was it was like fantastical, right? Because it's like you're always thinking about these beautiful things and but really the reality capture strike strike me out. I would be in these really remote beautiful places. Yeah. And then out of nowhere, you'd see a plastic bottle. You'd see a turtle that's got plastic, like I once I saw it was like a, it was a I'm not what kind of like a grocery store bag that was on a sea turtle. And it's like things like, What do I do? I'm in Hawaii, I'm supposed to not touch the turtle? Do I take the plastic off? Do I leave it alone, I'll be fine. And there's all these like things that started to kind of really bother me. So I thought, well, somebody should do something about this. And then I you know, I did nothing with it. And I remember being in this really super remote place on in North Queensland, Australia. And it was like, it was 900 K's from any, you know, any civilization basically. But the evidence of mankind was everywhere. I mean, you were talking about and this is no exaggeration, but you would go to the beach and they would just be large chunks of like scuba diving tanks, flip flops, clothes. I'm you're like how did these things in here. And the crazy thing was, is like I could even find a pair of flip flops, I'm eating one for the right foot and one for the left foot. It was always a moment right or or left. And I don't understand how that works. I'm sure there's some science somewhere that can explain that. But then it became really evident to me that's like, Well, wait a second, like I'm creating art, I have a platform to talk about this stuff. And whereas I can go on any stage and give you all these factoids and figures about the oceans and why we need to protect them. That's just my idea, conveying to the masses. But when we create art, well, then that's, then that's something that you see something that becomes something for you, it becomes our idea. And I think and I think so that that was kind of the natural progression for the art and kind of going using art to be able to talk about the issues of conservation as it comes up with with the oceans.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 7:47
And so from the art to transitioning, seeing that art is this powerful medium to activate and instill a desire and people to you know, actually make change how so how did that change? transition happened? What was what was the next step for you?
Jeremy McKane 8:02
Yeah, I at the moment, I mean, at that time, I was just kind of like winging it, because I didn't know really what I was doing. I looked around and I could see some people trying to do some things, what I saw was the lack of unification. And I saw that as a huge problem. But then I saw like a couple groups that were doing really cool things. The first one that I took note of was take three, take three Australia, and I thought they had the best message was Tim sky and my name is Tim silver with it started it. And the best they explained is like, you know, yeah, if you go to the beach and you see rubbish, just pick up three pieces at least, and put it in the bin. And it's like, well, you don't have to be rich guy, you don't have to donate any money, you just have to be a human. And I thought what a powerful message because it wasn't asking for a whole lot of money. And then that kind of transcended other things. Then I started meeting other people that were head of like mine, and I thought well, how can we kind of unite these things. So I felt a little, I don't know, guilty, because here I am making these artworks about beautiful things in the oceans. And I'm talking about the also the bad things. But the there's really no action attached to it. It's just a lot of talk a lot of noise. And that was kind of why I kind of went back to the drawing board. And so we have to create something that we can we can build to, to fix some of the issues or to offset some of the issues that we're seeing. So that's where the ocean currency network came, started that and the idea was like, it was all out of ignorance, because I was, you know, all at our but I would ask marine biologist like, hey, how did these marine protected areas? How do you know that they're doing their job? And oftentimes as well, you know, we do this, we do that? And we guessed this, we guess that and they were all really smart guys, they've been doing this for a long time. But it was really low resolution, low frequency data, how can we convince the public that we need to protect more of the waters if we can't give them adequate data? And so that put me on this quest. And so now without going into too much detail, we'll have time to do that. But, you know, we're building these really cool tools that can analyze life below water and analyze, you know, not just what kinds of life but what you know, we can we can say, you know, how often are they coming in here, what, you know, we're looking at the genomes of individual species that kind of come to the waters. This is through a partnership that I'm doing with the jirgas laboratory at Harvard University. Just really crazy stuff. And all this technology is out there. And now it's a matter of points of intersection. How do we put all these things together, it's like going to the grocery store. Like, I mean, I don't know the first thing about baking cake to be quite honest with you. But I know there's a recipe out there somewhere, I can follow somebody, you know, footprints, and then I can go to the store and I could buy the ingredients, and then I might have some resemblance of a cake. I'll taste it a couple times, it'll probably suck. through trial and error, I might have a decent cake pretty soon. And I think that's kind of how we're looking a lot of the technology, especially the innovation around the ocean space at the moment.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 10:41
Mm hmm. You also touched on pollution being you know, one of the greatest threats to the ocean. But there's others like climate change and acidification. Have you seen I mean, in, you're obviously very immersed in the space that, you know, what are the things that are exciting in terms of innovate positive innovation and positive technologies for the ocean that you've seen that can actually address any of those critical issues that the ocean is currently facing?
Jeremy McKane 11:07
I would say to answer that question. I would probably say that and we need to kind of reflect back on us first. You know, as I get older of the thing, one of the jokes that I have with people, they say I know how I'm getting older, but how many doctors I have used to me I only had one doctor. But when we have a problem with our bodies, we say oh gosh, you know, I've got this thing where I'm allergic to this nut or something. We go, we talked to the doctor, and he treats that one symptom. But do they? How often do we look at the entire body to figure out why that even that allergy happened in the first place? I think the oceans and climate change are intrinsically connected, we can't separate them against it. Because essentially, what climate changes, it's a symptom. It's a symptom of something. I live in Texas. And believe it or not, there's a lot of people that want to do things for climate change. But there's still some really smart people that don't believe it, they feel like it's a natural cause. And maybe it is on some levels. But at the same time, we also have to face the fact that we exacerbating the problem, right, tremendously. And so so how do we how do we go back and look back at us at our culture? and say, Well, what can we do to offset so that we we treat the actual core problem and not the symptoms. So when I look at technologies, and I look at concepts, what I think is really great as the folks who have taken the time to do their research, go back to indigenous cultures, because they've been doing this for thousands of years. And it's been working. But we came along with our really cool technology and our flashy things. And we found a way to do it better It was almost like we're the last boys have never Neverland, we just decided to do everything our way. And it's not working. So the status quo is broken. So that's now why we need to fix but as far as you know, technologies that are out there. I love the guys, it's the see Ben project, I think what they're doing is it's great. You know, I think I think concepts that are looking at that. But I also think like when we draw back to like, what, five tires, for instance, five drivers at Oregon and Marcus Ericsson started that, you know, they're actually focusing on the culture there. They're focusing on the culture and the unification of everyone. So I think if Marcus was here, right now, I can't speak for him. But I feel like he would say to me, you know, the biggest issue when you talk about plastic pollution, is that the advocates for plastics are crazy organized, they're crazy funded, and they're united. But the conservationists are just all over the place, like bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, with the exception of a couple few, right? And so like, if we want to make it a massive impact, it starts internally, and then we can start to look physically on how we can unite each other's efforts. So I don't know if that really answers your questions. But I feel like it all starts with culture, right?
Pete Turner 13:40
Hey, this is Pete real quick, I just want to let you guys know, we are proud to announce our official support of save the brave, a certified nonprofit 501 c three, with a charter of helping veterans with post traumatic stress. Here's how you can help go to save the brave, calm, click on the link on the website. And my recommendation is this subscribe, give him 20 bucks a month, you've got subscriptions that you can turn off right now that you're not using that are $20 a month, swap that out get involved. Let's help these folks out.
Jeremy McKane 14:08
So I don't know if that really answers your questions. But I feel like it all starts with culture.
Pete Turner 14:12
Right? Do you have a sense for the problem internationally? I mean, obviously, the water collects the plastic, but we do a pretty good job. Am I saying great of gathering our own plastic and doing something with it? Especially compared to like, I've been to Djibouti? And let me tell you something, hey, they have no program. Yeah, they're recycling is throwing something on the ground and walking away from it. So I'm all about reduce reuse Reese Witherspoon. But how do how do we do to other places?
Jeremy McKane 14:43
Yeah, so I think you know, when you mentioned America, and specifically United States, they you know, we do a very good job at collecting our plastic and essentially, you know, it goes, it doesn't go into the waterways and all these kinds of things as it does in some other countries. The caveat is that essentially what we do is we package it up, and we ship it to China, what turns out China doesn't want it anymore. So now we have to come up with another solution. That's going back to you know, this is also kind of the thing that I often say is like, Well, you know, that Indonesia and Southeast Asia and China are they're the biggest contributors to ocean plastic. Probably it is true, it is a this is a fact. But it also is the fact that we're shipping all of our crap to them, you know. So So, at the end of the day, what we need to we need to do is not point fingers at other people and realize that there's 7.7 billion crew members on Spaceship Earth, and we all play a role. So I think, you know, you know, get your right United States has an amazing waste management tools. The question that I have for those in empower, and the United States is what are you going to do with the trash to make it closed loop full cycle, there are really cool technologies, like promises, that convert, you know, plastics into basically fuel, like can be refined into jet A can be refined into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, hum, the danger I have with that goes back to culture. If I think that there's some nine year old kid that's going to be sucking plastic out of the ocean, then it's going to absolve me of responsibility, saying, Well, you know, he's this little boy is going to just figure it and figure it out. I say that facetiously. Because it seems like every time we talk about
Sandra Ponce De Leon 16:14
talking about the ocean, you're making your reference to the ocean cleanup project I am.
Jeremy McKane 16:18
Because every time it's brought up to me and passing by somebody that doesn't know anything about the actual clinic project, it seems like he gets younger year by year and I whatever, whatever that processes, I want that because I want less doctors. I think that looking back into that, I think is an issue. But you know, but yeah, you're right. I mean, I look at my own city. And I look at, you know, there's blue bins everywhere there's recycling, people are mindful of recycling. But what they don't realize is that 92 to 93% of everything they put in that blue bin does not end up recycled. So what happens is with what I fear more than anything, and Dr. Sylvia Earle says it the best she was here, she would say that she says, you know, we have to give people hope. And we have to we have to innovate, because when they there is no hope. The only thing left in our hearts is apathy. And that's something that we truly cannot afford. Mm hmm.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 17:08
Yeah, those are beautiful words by Sylvia Earle who is a legend in the ocean conservationists circles. And she's been doing a lot of work with developing hope spots around the world, which are protected marine areas. So it's awesome that you make a reference to her. But let's talk about a little bit more about, you know, what you're doing, you know, with ocean coin, and the other initiatives that you have, that are aimed at actually making that those the, you know, the kind of positive impact that our oceans need.
Jeremy McKane 17:38
Yeah, okay. Sure. Well, I mean, you know, I created the ocean currency network, right around the in the heyday of like, all the blockchain, crypto stuff that happened, like I say, the heyday, which was really, it was like, 2017. But you know, I came from a world in the.com era where people were spending ridiculous amount of money on really stupid concepts. And you get these ridiculous valuations. I saw the same thing happening in the crypto space, and I didn't want to be in that crowd. So we decided we wanted to build something that was tangible we didn't want to do with the rest of the flock was doing. So two things was, you know, how do I incentivize people for doing things that that's obviously the basis of being able to kind of pay somebody and easy but that can be done with PayPal? We don't have anything else. There's no real cool technology there. Where I saw an issue was this unification that I spoke of earlier, there's all these different concepts of how we gather data of the ocean, how do we know whether a marine protected area is actually doing its job? But how do we share that data? Sometimes this data sits on hard drives on no votes. And you know, it's, you can have access to it, but you're gonna have to wait. So here's where that low frequency thing comes into play. Again, it's frustrating for scientists, it's frustrating for citizen scientists, and you know, artists that want to do cool stuff with that data. So I kind of, say Necessity is the mother of invention, I kind of went back to the drawing board. And so what would I do if I wanted this, right about this time is where I ran into Dr. Peter girgis at Harvard University. And he was like talking about these really cool things that cost 15 and $20. To get data out of the ocean. This is awesome. In the best part about it, he left it open source. So then I kind of took a chapter out of his book, and as well, what if I created a system that actually wrote this data to a blockchain than me an immutable source. So we could look at, you know, temperatures, we can look at plastic particularly, we could look at the types of fish, we could use Google's TensorFlow to be able to analyze video footage on the spot and actually say, oh, there's a shark, oh, there's a black tip Reef Shark or so on. And so for me to get more complicated as time goes on, as we train the machines, but this data, this, these systems can be applied to people and they can now we can start to get this, this immutable source of ocean data, start to get a really good understanding. Because if we understand high frequency, high resolution, what's happening to our oceans, if there's a problem with say, oxygen levels in a certain part of the Gulf of Mexico, before it becomes a catastrophe, we might be able to do something to prevent it. It's the whole reason why we have a weather system, right? Right now, right? When we have satellites are analyzing, you know, whether it's a water vapor, and all these other kinds of things. And we're able to save lives, because we can predict tornadoes, we there's sirens, there's all kinds of things, I wanted to do something just like that for the oceans, because I felt like following up after some major catastrophes have happened, is not a really good way to maintain things. And so in this kind of process, you know, different people would kind of pop up. And one of them was Chandler Griffin from my senses. And they're the ones that make our drones for us. And so what challenge did was he took a Jets game, and completely revamped it and made it like this autonomous board. It's a jet ski, it runs like a jet ski has a top speed of 60 knots on open water, but it also has radar, it also can run in an area autonomy, can be can it can patrol areas, especially marine protected areas. And so what I saw in that particular deal was I was like, you know, I can actually take this can be a dual purpose, I could take, I could do scientific studies. And then I can also help these, these, these sovereign nations enforce the protections of their of their brand protected area. So the Maiko what it's called. And one of the things that that can be used for, we're going to do some trials in Jamaica, there are first country we're working with, will analyze their marine protected area. And we'll take samples, and what we'll be doing at the moment is we're gathering water samples out of the ocean, and then we send those samples at the moment to the lab. And we look for different types of genome markers, basically, we're looking for, you know, we have this database that says, you know, if we have this combination, that we've got a tuna, we've got a shark or whatever, what I want to do is I want to somehow come back in determine, okay, you know, what, in this water at any given time, based on a whole subset of data, you know, we've got X amount of tuna, let's say we found, you know, 100 tuna and those hundred tuna were worth, you know, I know, let's just call it $10 million. Now, I have a financial marker to these assets underwater, and I can cross collateralized those assets. And then let's say that all of a sudden, you know, Sandra decides that she's going to come fishing in these waters. And all the sudden, this Maiko stops doing scientific studies, broadcast over channel 16, you have entered an area that is that is a protected area, you have 10 minutes to leave, if you don't leave, it sends you another warning that you know, you're about to be arrested, the marine police and our Navy, what will be on their way, if you refuse to go it will tell you, you know what you're arrested. And if at that point you try to run, we have a system that can disable your vessel. And so and I don't want to get too public on exactly how we disable vessels. But we do this because we want to be able to, we want to be able to kit to give the sovereign nations autonomous enforcement tools that doesn't put human lives interesting.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 22:49
Yeah, I mean, because as pirates and the people that are engaging in this illegal fishing activity, and these marine protected areas, can imagine are quite heavily armed. And, you know, kind of dangerous schedule,
Jeremy McKane 23:02
folks. I mean, I think those are the those are the people that we hear about in the news, right? Because those are the that's the most you know, that's that's the stuff that makes the stories. The truth is, is that the people that you have fishing in these areas that are protected. Well, they're people like you and I that are just trying to provide for their families, you know, and so this is also part of this equation. How do we protect more of the ocean right now we we protect very little the ocean, I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 7%. But at IUC. And in 2016, over here, I don't know the actual numbers was like, No, it was well over 130 nations and 600 NGOs basically said that, you know, we need to protect 30% of the world's oceans if we're to push the needle back in the opposite direction. Well, how do you do that, and also ensure that these people that live in these areas have an economy that they can support their families on? It's like just it goes back to this whole analogy of the body, we're treating one part of it, we're not thinking about the whole thing. Again, if you want to get really specific, several groups from parlay for the oceans, he says, plastic is design failure. Same problem, right? We say, well, we can use this to help us with our bottom line, it'll help us with things being clean. But we didn't actually design what happened on the end of use of that thing. Right? You know, so what we want to do is we want to say, Okay, cool. Now we know what's inside of these, these waters, can we create a new asset class a new financial model, to where we can help incentivize other projects on the island where these folks could network. So now we're talking about it, reintroducing new economies in places where we're having to remove them, because we're trying to let the ocean regenerate
Pete Turner 24:32
when it comes to trying to manage these big problems that you know, you have the problem of siloed, right, like, I've got friends that are working on ocean cleaning, from their own point of view perspective. And I would imagine that these things can cross over in a way that isn't advantageous. So we had a while back, we had Dr. Stephen running go and open to grab beginning in a couple of weeks. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winning climatologist and he talks about certain basic things we can do. But one of the problems is, is there isn't an overriding global body that really has the enforcement capability, you can sign the treaty. But that doesn't mean that you know, like, you were saying, the person is going to go out and make money for their family, taking some tuna home, you know, can't really stop that person effectively. I also want to ask you about the app that would shut down a boat, is that not dangerous for the pirates in the area? Are we putting them at risk? By having a dead stick of a boat? But let's get to that little later on. So how do we deal with the siloed and the lack of global authority to get some of these things done? Because I know, for example, the United States is not going to bow to an unelected body. We've said that over and over again, for 200 plus years.
Jeremy McKane 25:42
Yeah, this is where I think this is gets kind of like almost a sci fi conversation, right? Because this is where I see, you know, private individuals and private corporations working with machines to be able to take over. I know that sounds scary. But I do think that there can be this harmonic harmonious balance between the between the two, I certainly for one, don't want to be floating around an ominous territory looking for bad guys, but I can train machines to do that. I for one, don't want to be diving down counting fish, but I can train machines to do that. So I think I think there's a balance there that, you know, and I think we're still learning what that balances actually going to be. And we still have yet to do some pretty heavy field tests. But we'll know answers to that pretty soon.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 26:19
Yeah, the the field test for the Maiko will be happening, when when are you starting those?
Jeremy McKane 26:24
Well, since we get the funding for it, you know, anybody that's ready, ready to check, let's do this, that's really been kind of the the drama, we've built all the tech and it's not just the makeup, we have other sensors that are gathering all kinds of different data. You know, we're we also have like these green laser refraction systems that we can measure, plastic particulate. And that becomes really interesting, too. Because now if we start to look at these data models, and say, Well, where's the plastic going? You know, we already know kind of because of various buoys that are out there, how the how the currents go, but where's the plastic sitting? what's the what's the percentage because another misnomer. People believe that there's this this mysterious trash Island in between Hawaii in California,
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:01
right? The greatest civic Garbage Patch?
Jeremy McKane 27:03
It doesn't exist, not in the way it's
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:05
four times the size of France.
Jeremy McKane 27:07
It's it's massive. But it's Yes, it's plastic soup. It's plastic smog. And so when we when we when we when we have misinformation, because we're just just joined it all over the place. It creates havoc, and and also, it the public starts to lose faith and any kind of positive movement forward.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:26
Yeah, I mean, so getting back to Pete's question and also some of the things that you've been touching on in terms of this fragmentation of people that are interested in making positive impact, you know, how do we unite these groups that wants to, you know, impact change in a positive way? What are the Do you have an actually, I'm giving you a question here. You know, what do you have going on? That's, you know, meant to unite these fragmented circles of players. Yeah, I
Jeremy McKane 27:55
think there's actually a multiple groups around the world that are actually bringing people yeah, there's various different summits and those kinds of things. And I think the doing really good. I'm, I'm going to summit, you know, here in a little bit. I'm actually in the airport. So if you hear background noise, I'm super sorry. But I'm at an airport doing this. But I'm going to speak at EQ and San Francisco. And you know, we're going to have this little kind of eco sprint about the oceans and technology and what's being what's happening in the space. But it's also kind of a breakout, where we get to kind of rub shoulders with other people and say, Well, what can we do together to make an impact. So there's that and then I actually am the host of the ocean summit on Necker Island. And so we were super fortunate to have my co host Susie MI, and I, to be able to host 70 people from 10 different countries on Sir Richard Branson's home. And in the BVI. I didn't know what to expect, in the very beginning, I was a little worried that it was going to be like a fire festival, because I made the mistake like days before watching that stupid documentary, and then going and doing hours. But the cool thing was, is that Richard was there and the The island was still there, and the boats were still there. And we didn't have all those kinds of things problem. But when we got there, what was really interesting was we had people from all walks of life focused on one issue, and that was, what actions do we need to do? Or what can we do to to make some impact on protecting 30% of the world's oceans? Again, to quote Sylvia, that she was there she was here, she said, Well, that's a good start, but we need to protect it all. But right now, we're less than 10%. So we need that we have some work to do. And so you know, now what we had is we had we had artists, we had entrepreneurs, investors, philanthropic, you know, groups that said, you know, well, here's how we would do it. And even Richard had said to me, at one point, he's like, you know, how did you get so many people here, and I was just like, I don't know, I'm a weird person. And these people are super weird, too. And I guess we just feel normal here. He was like, well, he goes weird is good. He goes, just keep it up. So I think that's what it's going to take to make some kind of impact, such as bringing people together saying, hey, like, we're part of one team, we're, we're one group, like, you know, and then the other part of it is that you need to take this ego of, not necessarily individual ego, but organizational ego that needs to go away. Because we have to realize we're floating around on the same block in the solar system. Unless we all work together, nothing positive is going to happen. So I see that happening, world oceans day that the UN, I see it happening now I caught 25, which is now been dubbed the blue cup, that'll be in Santiago, Chile, the end of this year. So you're seeing groups from all over the world that are now kind of coming together and and using their resources. And so it's kind of like, it reminds me a little bit of that book. It was it was the Malcolm Gladwell tipping point. And he talked about how like you can, you can invite like 3000 people or you can invite like, you know, hundred people to have access to 3000 people and you have much more of an impact. And I think that's kind of what's happening here is like these little groups are masking, you know, kind of recognition, in some kind of like track record. And at some point, I see them all kind of joining together to be, you know, a really united effort. But it takes time, and it takes a little bit of growing pains and to get there.
Pete Turner 31:02
Hey, this is Pete a Turner from blinds, rock productions, we create podcasts around here. And if you your brand, or your company want to figure out how to do a podcast, just talk to me, I'll give you the advice on the right gear. The best plan is show you how to take the podcast that makes sense for you that's sustainable, that scalable and fun, hit me up at Pete at breakdown show. com Let me help I want to hear about it.
Jeremy McKane 31:24
And at some point, I see them all kind of joining together to be you know, a really united effort. But it takes time and it takes a little bit of growing pains in order to get there.
Pete Turner 31:33
I want to ask you, so one of the things is, you know, we all get cause fatigue, right? Like I'm pretty passionate about PTSD and trying to keep my fellow veterans alive. But also I've got a friend that's got ALS. And so now I'm passionate about ALS and trying to help find at least you know, something to alleviate their the speed of that disease. But I also love the ocean. And I also know and it's like, so it can be overwhelming, you know? And Jeremy, I guess what I'm asking this is, you know, I have more money than time, right? But I only have so much time. What do you want to say to you know, the standard person who's a millennial or middle aged like I am? And they're like, Hey, want to help? But I don't have time. I don't have that much money. You know, but I do care. So is there anything I can do even on a small scale?
Jeremy McKane 32:22
Yeah, well, so this is where this conversation gets really interesting, right? Because like, we all have one thing that we can do we can we can stop using these products, you know, and you know if they're if they're things that are harming the environment, other people who promote meatless Monday's right, that's, that's one thing that you can do for climate change. I try my very best to not use anything to go. This includes paper products, because we have some time in our head, we think, oh, gosh, no, as long as I'm not using plastic papers, Italy's better because if I have a degree, well, it does biodegrade. And when it does biodegrade, it creates methane, and methane is 25 times more potent. So it's like, all of these things are problems. So if we, if we know this, and now we're aware, we can actually do something, you know. So right off the bat, we can say what how do we how do we reduce our impact? And these are some ways trying to the best of your ability not to use anything that's single us. That's that's an easy thing to do. Now we get into kind of a conversation like, like you run a podcast, right? You could make a feature once a week or once a month, that's about the oceans or about whatever, say everybody has like a different stage. And if they realize what their resources are, that conversation changes a little bit, you know, I had a conversation with somebody who runs I don't want to say his name, because he may not mean want me to say but, but he's that he's like Jeremy because I write checks. He goes with anything that needs to happen. I can write checks, he feels kind of lame. He goes, What else can I do? And he has a TV show. And it's not a documentary style. I told her, I said, everyone that watches documentaries, they're already sold. But you have a sci fi TV show, why not do a study about how some alien race destroyed their planet? Because they didn't take care of the oceans, you know, start to kind of work on those kinds of things. The reason why I'm answering your question this way, is because there is no one way you know, this is like, this is not this is not a conversation with the Dalai Lama, there's, I can't make you one with the ocean, just an answer. But what I can tell you is that, you know, the first thing that we can do is we can start to look at what our impact is, what our what our stage presence is, and and where we can go as far as impact from there, and to every person that's different. And that's one of the reasons why I really wanted the ocean summit was because I knew I had all these different walks of life. And it's been amazing to see the people that have come forward saying, hey, well, this is what I'm going to one of the guys. He owns a company. It's a flip flop company called heart mine. His name is Jeremy as well, Stuart. And he's like, I hear that there's these microbes that I can use, I can make these like flip flops that will you know, biodegrade when they hit water. And I was like, you know, cool. So he's working on technologies to make a lesser impact on the environment. And I think when individuals do this, but more importantly, big corporations, then it becomes easier. And the reason why I say this is that look, if I go to Starbucks, which is very rare I do, I do go every now and then. But if I go to Starbucks, I try to get a porcelain mug. Because I'm know I'm going to be there. Right? That's that's how I can reduce the impact. But I actually didn't go to Starbucks to ask for a paper, plastic line cup. But they just give it to you. Because you just accept it. But you know, you can you have a choice. You have a you have a voice and you can use it. So I don't know if I really answered your question. I tried to do as best I could.
Pete Turner 35:22
No way. It's a hard question, right? Like, because cause fatigue is a real thing. And you really do only have some things. But those can be little things where it's easy to dismiss Little things like you can make 100 decisions that that add a little chip in the good favor, and then decide to every time you drive the car, you mash the gas as hard as you can. Because you're in a hurry, you know, like you just erased all of the good in that one point. You know, not one moment, you know, so it's Yeah, I struggled with it for sure. Because I,
Jeremy McKane 35:49
I think I think there's one word that sums it all up, it's best, your best is different than my best. Right? And I think that's the thing that we need to we can't we can't be comparing each other and being competitive in this space, because it does no good for the overall overall collective.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 36:03
Yeah. And I think just to add, I mean, I love what you're saying there, you know, about, we all have our own stage. And I think that's just, you know, everyone just should should realize that they can make an impact not only within themselves, but within their circles, and that they can, you know, put their super their superpowers, Pete you have superpowers, I have superpowers and put those superpowers to use for good. And so yeah, that's definitely we're so much in alignment with that. And, you know, for me, it's really about, you know, seeing these emerging technologies and companies that are developing, you know, these positive impact technologies and helping them amplify their voice through marketing. So that's really, you know, kind of where I'm at. And, you know, the other thing that I've noticed, personally, is that, you know, as I've become more aware, and done more work in the space, and network with more individuals that are, you know, very conscious about their consumption habits, it's, it's also impacting me and we, Jeremy and I had a conversation like, about, you know, not eating fish anymore. And I felt like, with all the work that I'm doing with the ocean space, it was hypocritical of me to continue to eat fish that, you know, Are you suffering from overfishing in so many areas I'm going to make make an exception for something like a lionfish, which is an invasive species, or, or maybe oysters, which I know are foreign. But yeah, I mean, I've just kind of seeing the, you know, personally, I am taking those, you know, small steps every day, you know, not going and using the reusable cups not doing the single use plastic and trying to reduce my or eat more vegan and more, you know, less have less meat in my diet as well. So,
Jeremy McKane 37:41
I mean, it goes back to though it goes back to what we said about the again, with the body analogy. It's like we're, we're treating the actual core issue. We're not treating the symptoms. You know, you mentioned fish. You know, overfishing is one of the greatest threats to the planet right now more than anything else, and then follow that I would say potential threat that is on there Horizon, a topic that actually came out of the ocean summit is deep sea mining. If we think climate change is a big deal right now, you haven't seen anything yet.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 38:07
Tell us why deep sea mining is
Jeremy McKane 38:09
Yeah, so all of these really cool technologies that we're actually talking over right now these like I got this really nice MacBook Pro, I got a I got an iPhone next to me, I got you know, I've got a car with all kinds of really cool stuff inside there. They have this things that that are needed to construct these rare earth minerals. Right? Well, where do we get rare earth minerals? Well, we mined for cobalt to make batteries, and lithium and all these kinds of things, typically in places that really need the money. And sometimes it's done with child labor, and all kinds of really dark, ugly things. But then when we say, well, we should stop doing that we shouldn't use child labor, we shouldn't, you know, strip mine the land, we still have a demand, we still want our latest Apple products. So where do we go? Why don't we why not go to the See, no one's down there, no one will know any different, you know. And so there's these little things called manganese nodules, right. And they're super important to have all these really cool, you know, little animals, they actually live on their next to these like hydrothermal vents and whatnot. And, you know, some of these areas are like 200 degrees Fahrenheit, you know, they're really crazy hot, and used to be, we thought nothing was down there. But it turns out, it's like the most biodiverse area on the entire planet. And so what happens when we start ripping all this stuff out and destroying all these, the ecosystems at the deepest part of the oceans are the least likely to adapt? Because they've, they've relied on the same food sources and systems for hundreds of millions of years. And if we disrupt that, we have no idea what that is going to mean, for us here on land.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 39:39
There's companies that are actually pursuing deep sea mining as alternative sources for their supply chains to create these products.
Jeremy McKane 39:47
Yeah, I mean, like, if I told you that you had a pawn in your backyard, and there was gold at the bottom, what would you do? Let's begin.
Pete Turner 39:55
Is there oil down there to keep drilling deeper?
Jeremy McKane 39:59
Yeah. And then, you know, it sounds all great. And on paper until you realize, but what maybe the long term effects are, it's all about ROI, right? It's like, yeah, I can get some short term gains, or, and it'd be awesome, you know, but my long term investment is not so good.
Pete Turner 40:13
Yeah, it's a balancing act, right? Because you want that new AI book or, or, you know, Tesla car, whatever it is, but you've got to scratch down a mountain or dig a hole in the ocean, to keep meeting the demands. And then we keep we take the used resources that we have, and sort of just put them back into the earth to do whatever they're going to do. And yeah, it's a real problem, like as we do the consumer thing to, to balance that there are some hopeful things though, like, so some Stanford PhDs just put out a paper, talking about converting methane to co2, which is, you know, a huge thing. So as
Jeremy McKane 40:48
we start even even cooler than that, is methane fuel cells that generate electricity. Oh, yeah,
Pete Turner 40:52
exactly right. And you don't even need batteries. So science is working on some of these problems. And hopefully, there's enough money getting into continue these kind of researches. And that's just, that's just two things with methane. Like, if we can turn methane into something less harmful, then we're doing better. However, we still have to control our consumption of things, you know, and it's so easy to go out and buy, buy, buy, buy, you know, and
Jeremy McKane 41:18
I can't believe I'm here, I'm here, I'm sorry. But I hear Cyril, golden syrup, Gucci, my ear from parlay. Uh, he was here right now, he said, everything is a design failure. You think about all the things we're talking about? Right? Yeah, its failure in design.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 41:29
Yeah, I mean, it gets, it gets back to the discussion of the circular economy. And I think then also, you know, really the basis for that, you know, educate education. And I think, you know, what we're doing here, what you're doing, Jeremy is, you know, getting the larger public to understand that, you know, they also need to change their consumption habits, but also, you know, make those demands of companies and corporations to create the packaging that will be biodegradable and dissolve water, and other types of, you know,
Jeremy McKane 42:03
those are, I think those are bridge technologies, though, just just while we're talking about that, because, again, about this whole idea about, you know, hey, we've got this plastic bag that turns into, you know, food, right, still absolving me of responsibility from doing the thing that I should be doing to begin with, you know, so I
Sandra Ponce De Leon 42:21
started design failure or what it what is that? And by that?
Jeremy McKane 42:27
I don't think it's a design of failure, because I think it serves a point, right, I think I think that just like priceless converting plastic into into fuel. Like we can't expect everybody on the planet all of a sudden, to just drive Tesla's that's unreasonable? And what are we going to do with all the petrol cars? I actually, my daughter holds Tesla stock. So I would like that to be the end game. Well, of course, I mean, I think that make no mistake, that is the future. But we're also sitting on 6070 year old battery technology that's so stupid, right? We have better technologies. And if we can focus on those, it's that we don't have to be really, you know, the planet the way we are to make this then. So that's a whole different story. But anyway, I digress.
Pete Turner 43:06
One of the problems with all these things, though, right, like, we always believe in science, but we also know that science makes a lot of mistakes on its way to a better solution. So, you know, at one point, we wanted to dry out the Everglades, because that was, you know, needed that land for people. And we do need more land for people. And we are creating more and more people you're talking about a problem with with the environment. You know, we're a terrible environmental partner, and yet they're going to be eight 910 billion of us and
Sandra Ponce De Leon 43:35
stop breeding people.
Jeremy McKane 43:37
I mean, seriously, like, how that's true. I have a friend that's working on a film on that very tough.
Pete Turner 43:43
Can we be as draconian as to say, we're going to cap the world population is 7.5 billion. Yikes. Scary?
Jeremy McKane 43:49
Yeah. You know, I, you know, I look at me individually, and I look at you know, I'm 42 now, and, you know, I remember being 18 and knowing everything, and now I'm 42. And I know nothing, right. And I i think that that collectively as as a human civilization on this planet, like, I think we were the same thing. And there was a period of time where we thought that, you know, bloodletting was how we solve problems, you know, and then we realized that that's probably not the best thing to do. And we started working on things but we learned, we learned from our mistakes, you know, we we attempted to go to space. So we attempted to go to the moon several times, we had some failures. But guess what, we made it happen. We've got a space station. Now we have now a commercial spaceflight company that's publicly traded, this is not possible without failure. And so if we are afraid of failure, then nothing is going to happen. But you know, as what is it Wayne Gretzky says, You missed 100% of the shots you don't take. Yeah, get out there and take some shots.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 44:39
Love it, love it. And that's such an inspiring note. to just share. I mean, you know, think be and you are such a great shining example of that. You know, I think that you know, what you what you're doing is so inspiring. You to Pete, you to Pete,
Pete Turner 44:55
steal compliments. That's one of my favorite things.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 44:58
Jeremy, you know, what's the what's the next for you? I know you're coming. You're on your way to San Francisco. The ocean summit coming up? What else do you have going on?
Jeremy McKane 45:07
Yeah, so we're planning ocean summit to actually and so actually, one of the one of the things that we're doing is, you know, we obviously be here Oh, we're going to do this event on Necker. It sounds super exclusive. That's the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted inclusive it, you know. So, in fact, one of the things that we did, we had scientists and artists that would have never been able to go to a place like that last year, but we made it possible for those things to happen. So we created this website, ocean summit.org. And we told people like, if this is something that you feel like you can contribute in some way, then you know, put your information in there, tell us what you do. And let's figure out how we can work together. Right, you know, I'm working on that. And on this particular year, we're going to do kind of some breakout sessions and stuff on Necker and then we're going to go for a couple days, we're going to go out in the boats, we're going to go to the various places in the BVI work with the locals, the schools and try to actually share with them what's you know, what we're actually trying to accomplish globally, but start where we're having these conversations, and seeing how we can help empower these communities as well. And then when I I'm toying with the ideas, I'm trying to gather as many like ocean innovators that I can find on the planet, right. And I think that there's a huge void in the space of like, really rewarding these innovators for doing something amazing. Because a lot of times we don't really know about it, right? What is how cool to be to have like this, you know, award ceremony for ocean innovators, right, that we're actually doing something I've been to hackathons before. People want lots of money for hackathons, and then they just disappear. I don't know, I guess they just go to the beach. But this is one of the things that we're actually planning right now is trying to figure out, you know, who's in this space that's wanting to do some really cool stuff. And we're trying to put everybody together so we can all because that's what it's going to take going back to that unification thing, we're going to all have to work together, we're going to have to set our organizational egos aside, you know, because and by the way, when we talk about protecting 30% of the world's oceans, we're not talking about forever, we have to give the oceans time to regenerate. So that we have, we have we can we can rely on it for hundreds of years after work on. Yeah, and it's been shown that those marine protected areas, the fish, come back, you know, five fold or more. So yeah, super important. I went to the first step who in in the first taboo in Fiji and allow group and I sat down with the paramount chief, and he told me the stories of how they count fish and how they create these top was top who is a traditional word for forbidden or taboo. And when these areas are set, no fishing, you're not even allowed to go through there. And in most cases, but what they found is that these, these fish just regenerate and repopulate. And it's actually better. And they would go count fish know when to release that taboo. But somewhere along the line, we just, we don't do it like we did in the old way. So. So I hope that we can kind of, you know, use a lot of indigenous beliefs and knowledge and using kind of a modern spin on it to help kind of scale that up to multiple cities. And countries.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 48:05
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we need to learn from our elders and civilizations that have been, you know, working on the land in the oceans for thousands of years and generations. So Well, is there anything that we didn't get get to touch on, Jeremy, that you wanted to give a shout out to? Or about? Yeah, I mean,
Jeremy McKane 48:27
I don't know. I mean, I feel like I talk about this stuff all the time. I feel like sometimes I bore people with the details, but but I guess what I would say is like, the one thing I would really like to leave everybody with is that if you feel empowered enough to want to do something, maybe you're a programmer, maybe you're a designer, maybe you have some cool talent. What can you do in this space? Can you do something where we can all benefit together, maybe there's something that we can do to help you. It all starts with kind of bringing everyone together. And so I invite everyone to just say what you do with the ocean, something I may never personally do business with you. But there might be other people inside this crew that would readily do business with you. And I think the more that we communicate to each other and, and kind of an open society, I really do feel that that's the first step for us to really unite our efforts.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 49:16
100% Well, thank you so much, Jeremy. As always, it's been a fantastic conversation. And I'm looking forward to seeing you when you're out here in San Francisco. And Pete, thank you so much for having me on. Break it down show. It's been super fun. It's always fun to have a chance to co host with you Sandra, you know, and I love pushing the narrative on things, especially if they make me uncomfortable. In this case, I love talking about the ocean because you know, it is a massive area for us to be working.
Pete Turner 49:45
And Jeremy, I will offer you this. Let's talk about how to put my podcast to work for the cause. Because
Jeremy McKane 49:50
let's do it. You know, I the one thing
Pete Turner 49:52
I do have surplus of his podcast awesomeness. So let me contribute sense of your podcast. Awesome.
Jeremy McKane 50:02
Yeah, 100%, sir. So I
Pete Turner 50:05
will put this up and do all we can to support what you're doing because it's important.
Jeremy McKane 50:09
Thank you. Thank you very much. And I really appreciate you guys have
been a real honor to be here with you guys.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 50:15
Thank you Jeremy.
Hey, this is john Leon Guerrero. Our guest today is artist and photo storyteller Jeremy McKane. He is masterful at cramming loads of life and human emotion in a finite moment into a single frame. And what makes his work even more interesting is that he loves the ocean. He loves water. He loves the life It gives and the way that it amplifies a story focuses intention, and ratchets up the sense of what's important right now. He creates beautiful works that include marine life and people enjoying the ocean often children, whose relationship with water seems more precious and more sincere. Jeremy is also a technologist and the founder of ocean a blockchain platform with a mission to protect 30% of the world's oceans by 2030. By reducing the cost of enforcement and defining financial value of the oceans resources by listing data and technology firms, to quantum five populations, the temperatures, and other data sets in various parts of the world's oceans. The ocean platform enables developers to collaborate with others around the world to improve conditions everywhere. Now we've had frogman free divers and seafarers on this show. And it's great to have Jeremy on to tell us about his work, protecting and conserving that environment for all of humanity, and all of the life in under and dependent on the see. This episode is co hosted and co produced by our friend Sandra Ponce de Leon. She's always great and she cares deeply about using the advances in technology we see across industries in all of the smartest ways. And if you care deeply about podcasts and great content that makes you smarter or better. Please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review on iTunes or Stitcher or wherever you listen to the break it down show. Nothing big, just a few words. Most of all shares with your friends. You know the ones who love the ocean, who love stories and storytellers and who would love to have their ear holes filled with stuff that makes them smarter and more interesting at parties. And now joining Pete and Sandra here's the most interesting guy at any party. Our guest today. Jeremy McKane
Joel Manzer 2:23
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This is Jay Mohr
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and this is Jordan. Texture from the
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naked Sebastian youngsters Rick Morocco Stewart Copeland back sir,
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yeah, Gaby Reese's Rob bell.
Jon Leon Guerrero 2:39
This is Jon Leon Guerrero
Pete Turner 2:39
and this is Pete a Turner
Jeremy McKane 2:44
Hey everyone, this is Jeremy McKane and I'm here on the breakdown show I'm the president ceo of the ocean currency network so thank you guys for having me.
Niko Leon Guerrero 2:54
And now the break it down show with john Leon Guerrero and Pete a Turner.
Pete Turner 3:00
Yeah, this is great. I've got this is sort of a popping the bubble Redux with Sandra co hosting with me and so we don't get enough chance to hang out and chat Sandra but this is always great to do. And I know you're passionate about the ocean. I also am passionate about the ocean actually have another ocean guy coming on next week a guy named posh Larsen and says he does a lot of photography in the ocean seal. But now today we have Jeremy McKean on and talking about his, I guess your path from artistry into the ocean currency network Canada. Actually, I'm going to kick it over to Sandra to let her do a little bit of talking to
Sandra Ponce De Leon 3:38
Yeah, yeah, no, thank you so much for having me, Pete, it's so great to be on the break it down show and I've missed our conversation. So really awesome to have me on as a guest. And I'm so excited to be here. And I'm so excited to talk to Jeremy because we've had several conversations over the course of the last few months. And he is an ocean warrior that leveraging the power of art and technology to make positive impact for the ocean. So, so excited to hear all about what you're up to Jeremy, I guess, you know, a great place to get started would be you know, you talk about yourself as an artist. And I've seen some of your incredible artwork that's available on Instagram at Jeremy McKane. But you know, talk about your journey from artists to now ocean activist.
Jeremy McKane 4:25
Yeah, you know, thanks for saying that. I mean, I will say that as an artist, like, that's the one thing that you always cringe about, you're like, you know, you always make these things, and they're beautiful to you, and you like them, and sometimes you hate them, but you put them out there anyway. And then you're like, oh crap is the rest of the world gonna like this, you know, and then sometimes you just let that go. So it means a great deal to say that you like it. So thank you. I love it. Yeah, so it was just, it was a it was a really weird, strange kind of tournaments. Like, I was always as a kid passionate about the underwater world. And I remember being a little boy and thinking, you know, gosh, I just wish that I could just be a scuba diver as quickly as possible. And so what in ended up happening out of all of this was I did end up going to be a scuba diver, I love doing it. But I wanted to spend more time down there. And the more time that I spent down there, the more I felt like, this was my home. And there was just so many beautiful things. And that just kind of transitioned into art. And I you know, I love the juxtaposition of humans in the ocean. Because I feel like sometimes when we look at really amazing footage, like from Blue Planet, or you know, you know, planet earth or any of these, like really cool things that we can all think of on the top of our heads, we look at these amazing, like natural things. We don't always put the human context in there. But you know, it's almost like it's us versus that we go to the beach, we see this line called the horizon. And, and that's usually where some people stop because they feel like there's bigger things in the ocean to get them. But the truth is, there's so many cool, magnificent things there. So how can I juxtapose those two and, and that was kind of the basis for my artwork. He was a little naive. It was it was like fantastical, right? Because it's like you're always thinking about these beautiful things and but really the reality capture strike strike me out. I would be in these really remote beautiful places. Yeah. And then out of nowhere, you'd see a plastic bottle. You'd see a turtle that's got plastic, like I once I saw it was like a, it was a I'm not what kind of like a grocery store bag that was on a sea turtle. And it's like things like, What do I do? I'm in Hawaii, I'm supposed to not touch the turtle? Do I take the plastic off? Do I leave it alone, I'll be fine. And there's all these like things that started to kind of really bother me. So I thought, well, somebody should do something about this. And then I you know, I did nothing with it. And I remember being in this really super remote place on in North Queensland, Australia. And it was like, it was 900 K's from any, you know, any civilization basically. But the evidence of mankind was everywhere. I mean, you were talking about and this is no exaggeration, but you would go to the beach and they would just be large chunks of like scuba diving tanks, flip flops, clothes. I'm you're like how did these things in here. And the crazy thing was, is like I could even find a pair of flip flops, I'm eating one for the right foot and one for the left foot. It was always a moment right or or left. And I don't understand how that works. I'm sure there's some science somewhere that can explain that. But then it became really evident to me that's like, Well, wait a second, like I'm creating art, I have a platform to talk about this stuff. And whereas I can go on any stage and give you all these factoids and figures about the oceans and why we need to protect them. That's just my idea, conveying to the masses. But when we create art, well, then that's, then that's something that you see something that becomes something for you, it becomes our idea. And I think and I think so that that was kind of the natural progression for the art and kind of going using art to be able to talk about the issues of conservation as it comes up with with the oceans.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 7:47
And so from the art to transitioning, seeing that art is this powerful medium to activate and instill a desire and people to you know, actually make change how so how did that change? transition happened? What was what was the next step for you?
Jeremy McKane 8:02
Yeah, I at the moment, I mean, at that time, I was just kind of like winging it, because I didn't know really what I was doing. I looked around and I could see some people trying to do some things, what I saw was the lack of unification. And I saw that as a huge problem. But then I saw like a couple groups that were doing really cool things. The first one that I took note of was take three, take three Australia, and I thought they had the best message was Tim sky and my name is Tim silver with it started it. And the best they explained is like, you know, yeah, if you go to the beach and you see rubbish, just pick up three pieces at least, and put it in the bin. And it's like, well, you don't have to be rich guy, you don't have to donate any money, you just have to be a human. And I thought what a powerful message because it wasn't asking for a whole lot of money. And then that kind of transcended other things. Then I started meeting other people that were head of like mine, and I thought well, how can we kind of unite these things. So I felt a little, I don't know, guilty, because here I am making these artworks about beautiful things in the oceans. And I'm talking about the also the bad things. But the there's really no action attached to it. It's just a lot of talk a lot of noise. And that was kind of why I kind of went back to the drawing board. And so we have to create something that we can we can build to, to fix some of the issues or to offset some of the issues that we're seeing. So that's where the ocean currency network came, started that and the idea was like, it was all out of ignorance, because I was, you know, all at our but I would ask marine biologist like, hey, how did these marine protected areas? How do you know that they're doing their job? And oftentimes as well, you know, we do this, we do that? And we guessed this, we guess that and they were all really smart guys, they've been doing this for a long time. But it was really low resolution, low frequency data, how can we convince the public that we need to protect more of the waters if we can't give them adequate data? And so that put me on this quest. And so now without going into too much detail, we'll have time to do that. But, you know, we're building these really cool tools that can analyze life below water and analyze, you know, not just what kinds of life but what you know, we can we can say, you know, how often are they coming in here, what, you know, we're looking at the genomes of individual species that kind of come to the waters. This is through a partnership that I'm doing with the jirgas laboratory at Harvard University. Just really crazy stuff. And all this technology is out there. And now it's a matter of points of intersection. How do we put all these things together, it's like going to the grocery store. Like, I mean, I don't know the first thing about baking cake to be quite honest with you. But I know there's a recipe out there somewhere, I can follow somebody, you know, footprints, and then I can go to the store and I could buy the ingredients, and then I might have some resemblance of a cake. I'll taste it a couple times, it'll probably suck. through trial and error, I might have a decent cake pretty soon. And I think that's kind of how we're looking a lot of the technology, especially the innovation around the ocean space at the moment.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 10:41
Mm hmm. You also touched on pollution being you know, one of the greatest threats to the ocean. But there's others like climate change and acidification. Have you seen I mean, in, you're obviously very immersed in the space that, you know, what are the things that are exciting in terms of innovate positive innovation and positive technologies for the ocean that you've seen that can actually address any of those critical issues that the ocean is currently facing?
Jeremy McKane 11:07
I would say to answer that question. I would probably say that and we need to kind of reflect back on us first. You know, as I get older of the thing, one of the jokes that I have with people, they say I know how I'm getting older, but how many doctors I have used to me I only had one doctor. But when we have a problem with our bodies, we say oh gosh, you know, I've got this thing where I'm allergic to this nut or something. We go, we talked to the doctor, and he treats that one symptom. But do they? How often do we look at the entire body to figure out why that even that allergy happened in the first place? I think the oceans and climate change are intrinsically connected, we can't separate them against it. Because essentially, what climate changes, it's a symptom. It's a symptom of something. I live in Texas. And believe it or not, there's a lot of people that want to do things for climate change. But there's still some really smart people that don't believe it, they feel like it's a natural cause. And maybe it is on some levels. But at the same time, we also have to face the fact that we exacerbating the problem, right, tremendously. And so so how do we how do we go back and look back at us at our culture? and say, Well, what can we do to offset so that we we treat the actual core problem and not the symptoms. So when I look at technologies, and I look at concepts, what I think is really great as the folks who have taken the time to do their research, go back to indigenous cultures, because they've been doing this for thousands of years. And it's been working. But we came along with our really cool technology and our flashy things. And we found a way to do it better It was almost like we're the last boys have never Neverland, we just decided to do everything our way. And it's not working. So the status quo is broken. So that's now why we need to fix but as far as you know, technologies that are out there. I love the guys, it's the see Ben project, I think what they're doing is it's great. You know, I think I think concepts that are looking at that. But I also think like when we draw back to like, what, five tires, for instance, five drivers at Oregon and Marcus Ericsson started that, you know, they're actually focusing on the culture there. They're focusing on the culture and the unification of everyone. So I think if Marcus was here, right now, I can't speak for him. But I feel like he would say to me, you know, the biggest issue when you talk about plastic pollution, is that the advocates for plastics are crazy organized, they're crazy funded, and they're united. But the conservationists are just all over the place, like bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, with the exception of a couple few, right? And so like, if we want to make it a massive impact, it starts internally, and then we can start to look physically on how we can unite each other's efforts. So I don't know if that really answers your questions. But I feel like it all starts with culture, right?
Pete Turner 13:40
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Jeremy McKane 14:08
So I don't know if that really answers your questions. But I feel like it all starts with culture.
Pete Turner 14:12
Right? Do you have a sense for the problem internationally? I mean, obviously, the water collects the plastic, but we do a pretty good job. Am I saying great of gathering our own plastic and doing something with it? Especially compared to like, I've been to Djibouti? And let me tell you something, hey, they have no program. Yeah, they're recycling is throwing something on the ground and walking away from it. So I'm all about reduce reuse Reese Witherspoon. But how do how do we do to other places?
Jeremy McKane 14:43
Yeah, so I think you know, when you mentioned America, and specifically United States, they you know, we do a very good job at collecting our plastic and essentially, you know, it goes, it doesn't go into the waterways and all these kinds of things as it does in some other countries. The caveat is that essentially what we do is we package it up, and we ship it to China, what turns out China doesn't want it anymore. So now we have to come up with another solution. That's going back to you know, this is also kind of the thing that I often say is like, Well, you know, that Indonesia and Southeast Asia and China are they're the biggest contributors to ocean plastic. Probably it is true, it is a this is a fact. But it also is the fact that we're shipping all of our crap to them, you know. So So, at the end of the day, what we need to we need to do is not point fingers at other people and realize that there's 7.7 billion crew members on Spaceship Earth, and we all play a role. So I think, you know, you know, get your right United States has an amazing waste management tools. The question that I have for those in empower, and the United States is what are you going to do with the trash to make it closed loop full cycle, there are really cool technologies, like promises, that convert, you know, plastics into basically fuel, like can be refined into jet A can be refined into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, hum, the danger I have with that goes back to culture. If I think that there's some nine year old kid that's going to be sucking plastic out of the ocean, then it's going to absolve me of responsibility, saying, Well, you know, he's this little boy is going to just figure it and figure it out. I say that facetiously. Because it seems like every time we talk about
Sandra Ponce De Leon 16:14
talking about the ocean, you're making your reference to the ocean cleanup project I am.
Jeremy McKane 16:18
Because every time it's brought up to me and passing by somebody that doesn't know anything about the actual clinic project, it seems like he gets younger year by year and I whatever, whatever that processes, I want that because I want less doctors. I think that looking back into that, I think is an issue. But you know, but yeah, you're right. I mean, I look at my own city. And I look at, you know, there's blue bins everywhere there's recycling, people are mindful of recycling. But what they don't realize is that 92 to 93% of everything they put in that blue bin does not end up recycled. So what happens is with what I fear more than anything, and Dr. Sylvia Earle says it the best she was here, she would say that she says, you know, we have to give people hope. And we have to we have to innovate, because when they there is no hope. The only thing left in our hearts is apathy. And that's something that we truly cannot afford. Mm hmm.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 17:08
Yeah, those are beautiful words by Sylvia Earle who is a legend in the ocean conservationists circles. And she's been doing a lot of work with developing hope spots around the world, which are protected marine areas. So it's awesome that you make a reference to her. But let's talk about a little bit more about, you know, what you're doing, you know, with ocean coin, and the other initiatives that you have, that are aimed at actually making that those the, you know, the kind of positive impact that our oceans need.
Jeremy McKane 17:38
Yeah, okay. Sure. Well, I mean, you know, I created the ocean currency network, right around the in the heyday of like, all the blockchain, crypto stuff that happened, like I say, the heyday, which was really, it was like, 2017. But you know, I came from a world in the.com era where people were spending ridiculous amount of money on really stupid concepts. And you get these ridiculous valuations. I saw the same thing happening in the crypto space, and I didn't want to be in that crowd. So we decided we wanted to build something that was tangible we didn't want to do with the rest of the flock was doing. So two things was, you know, how do I incentivize people for doing things that that's obviously the basis of being able to kind of pay somebody and easy but that can be done with PayPal? We don't have anything else. There's no real cool technology there. Where I saw an issue was this unification that I spoke of earlier, there's all these different concepts of how we gather data of the ocean, how do we know whether a marine protected area is actually doing its job? But how do we share that data? Sometimes this data sits on hard drives on no votes. And you know, it's, you can have access to it, but you're gonna have to wait. So here's where that low frequency thing comes into play. Again, it's frustrating for scientists, it's frustrating for citizen scientists, and you know, artists that want to do cool stuff with that data. So I kind of, say Necessity is the mother of invention, I kind of went back to the drawing board. And so what would I do if I wanted this, right about this time is where I ran into Dr. Peter girgis at Harvard University. And he was like talking about these really cool things that cost 15 and $20. To get data out of the ocean. This is awesome. In the best part about it, he left it open source. So then I kind of took a chapter out of his book, and as well, what if I created a system that actually wrote this data to a blockchain than me an immutable source. So we could look at, you know, temperatures, we can look at plastic particularly, we could look at the types of fish, we could use Google's TensorFlow to be able to analyze video footage on the spot and actually say, oh, there's a shark, oh, there's a black tip Reef Shark or so on. And so for me to get more complicated as time goes on, as we train the machines, but this data, this, these systems can be applied to people and they can now we can start to get this, this immutable source of ocean data, start to get a really good understanding. Because if we understand high frequency, high resolution, what's happening to our oceans, if there's a problem with say, oxygen levels in a certain part of the Gulf of Mexico, before it becomes a catastrophe, we might be able to do something to prevent it. It's the whole reason why we have a weather system, right? Right now, right? When we have satellites are analyzing, you know, whether it's a water vapor, and all these other kinds of things. And we're able to save lives, because we can predict tornadoes, we there's sirens, there's all kinds of things, I wanted to do something just like that for the oceans, because I felt like following up after some major catastrophes have happened, is not a really good way to maintain things. And so in this kind of process, you know, different people would kind of pop up. And one of them was Chandler Griffin from my senses. And they're the ones that make our drones for us. And so what challenge did was he took a Jets game, and completely revamped it and made it like this autonomous board. It's a jet ski, it runs like a jet ski has a top speed of 60 knots on open water, but it also has radar, it also can run in an area autonomy, can be can it can patrol areas, especially marine protected areas. And so what I saw in that particular deal was I was like, you know, I can actually take this can be a dual purpose, I could take, I could do scientific studies. And then I can also help these, these, these sovereign nations enforce the protections of their of their brand protected area. So the Maiko what it's called. And one of the things that that can be used for, we're going to do some trials in Jamaica, there are first country we're working with, will analyze their marine protected area. And we'll take samples, and what we'll be doing at the moment is we're gathering water samples out of the ocean, and then we send those samples at the moment to the lab. And we look for different types of genome markers, basically, we're looking for, you know, we have this database that says, you know, if we have this combination, that we've got a tuna, we've got a shark or whatever, what I want to do is I want to somehow come back in determine, okay, you know, what, in this water at any given time, based on a whole subset of data, you know, we've got X amount of tuna, let's say we found, you know, 100 tuna and those hundred tuna were worth, you know, I know, let's just call it $10 million. Now, I have a financial marker to these assets underwater, and I can cross collateralized those assets. And then let's say that all of a sudden, you know, Sandra decides that she's going to come fishing in these waters. And all the sudden, this Maiko stops doing scientific studies, broadcast over channel 16, you have entered an area that is that is a protected area, you have 10 minutes to leave, if you don't leave, it sends you another warning that you know, you're about to be arrested, the marine police and our Navy, what will be on their way, if you refuse to go it will tell you, you know what you're arrested. And if at that point you try to run, we have a system that can disable your vessel. And so and I don't want to get too public on exactly how we disable vessels. But we do this because we want to be able to, we want to be able to kit to give the sovereign nations autonomous enforcement tools that doesn't put human lives interesting.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 22:49
Yeah, I mean, because as pirates and the people that are engaging in this illegal fishing activity, and these marine protected areas, can imagine are quite heavily armed. And, you know, kind of dangerous schedule,
Jeremy McKane 23:02
folks. I mean, I think those are the those are the people that we hear about in the news, right? Because those are the that's the most you know, that's that's the stuff that makes the stories. The truth is, is that the people that you have fishing in these areas that are protected. Well, they're people like you and I that are just trying to provide for their families, you know, and so this is also part of this equation. How do we protect more of the ocean right now we we protect very little the ocean, I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 7%. But at IUC. And in 2016, over here, I don't know the actual numbers was like, No, it was well over 130 nations and 600 NGOs basically said that, you know, we need to protect 30% of the world's oceans if we're to push the needle back in the opposite direction. Well, how do you do that, and also ensure that these people that live in these areas have an economy that they can support their families on? It's like just it goes back to this whole analogy of the body, we're treating one part of it, we're not thinking about the whole thing. Again, if you want to get really specific, several groups from parlay for the oceans, he says, plastic is design failure. Same problem, right? We say, well, we can use this to help us with our bottom line, it'll help us with things being clean. But we didn't actually design what happened on the end of use of that thing. Right? You know, so what we want to do is we want to say, Okay, cool. Now we know what's inside of these, these waters, can we create a new asset class a new financial model, to where we can help incentivize other projects on the island where these folks could network. So now we're talking about it, reintroducing new economies in places where we're having to remove them, because we're trying to let the ocean regenerate
Pete Turner 24:32
when it comes to trying to manage these big problems that you know, you have the problem of siloed, right, like, I've got friends that are working on ocean cleaning, from their own point of view perspective. And I would imagine that these things can cross over in a way that isn't advantageous. So we had a while back, we had Dr. Stephen running go and open to grab beginning in a couple of weeks. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winning climatologist and he talks about certain basic things we can do. But one of the problems is, is there isn't an overriding global body that really has the enforcement capability, you can sign the treaty. But that doesn't mean that you know, like, you were saying, the person is going to go out and make money for their family, taking some tuna home, you know, can't really stop that person effectively. I also want to ask you about the app that would shut down a boat, is that not dangerous for the pirates in the area? Are we putting them at risk? By having a dead stick of a boat? But let's get to that little later on. So how do we deal with the siloed and the lack of global authority to get some of these things done? Because I know, for example, the United States is not going to bow to an unelected body. We've said that over and over again, for 200 plus years.
Jeremy McKane 25:42
Yeah, this is where I think this is gets kind of like almost a sci fi conversation, right? Because this is where I see, you know, private individuals and private corporations working with machines to be able to take over. I know that sounds scary. But I do think that there can be this harmonic harmonious balance between the between the two, I certainly for one, don't want to be floating around an ominous territory looking for bad guys, but I can train machines to do that. I for one, don't want to be diving down counting fish, but I can train machines to do that. So I think I think there's a balance there that, you know, and I think we're still learning what that balances actually going to be. And we still have yet to do some pretty heavy field tests. But we'll know answers to that pretty soon.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 26:19
Yeah, the the field test for the Maiko will be happening, when when are you starting those?
Jeremy McKane 26:24
Well, since we get the funding for it, you know, anybody that's ready, ready to check, let's do this, that's really been kind of the the drama, we've built all the tech and it's not just the makeup, we have other sensors that are gathering all kinds of different data. You know, we're we also have like these green laser refraction systems that we can measure, plastic particulate. And that becomes really interesting, too. Because now if we start to look at these data models, and say, Well, where's the plastic going? You know, we already know kind of because of various buoys that are out there, how the how the currents go, but where's the plastic sitting? what's the what's the percentage because another misnomer. People believe that there's this this mysterious trash Island in between Hawaii in California,
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:01
right? The greatest civic Garbage Patch?
Jeremy McKane 27:03
It doesn't exist, not in the way it's
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:05
four times the size of France.
Jeremy McKane 27:07
It's it's massive. But it's Yes, it's plastic soup. It's plastic smog. And so when we when we when we when we have misinformation, because we're just just joined it all over the place. It creates havoc, and and also, it the public starts to lose faith and any kind of positive movement forward.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 27:26
Yeah, I mean, so getting back to Pete's question and also some of the things that you've been touching on in terms of this fragmentation of people that are interested in making positive impact, you know, how do we unite these groups that wants to, you know, impact change in a positive way? What are the Do you have an actually, I'm giving you a question here. You know, what do you have going on? That's, you know, meant to unite these fragmented circles of players. Yeah, I
Jeremy McKane 27:55
think there's actually a multiple groups around the world that are actually bringing people yeah, there's various different summits and those kinds of things. And I think the doing really good. I'm, I'm going to summit, you know, here in a little bit. I'm actually in the airport. So if you hear background noise, I'm super sorry. But I'm at an airport doing this. But I'm going to speak at EQ and San Francisco. And you know, we're going to have this little kind of eco sprint about the oceans and technology and what's being what's happening in the space. But it's also kind of a breakout, where we get to kind of rub shoulders with other people and say, Well, what can we do together to make an impact. So there's that and then I actually am the host of the ocean summit on Necker Island. And so we were super fortunate to have my co host Susie MI, and I, to be able to host 70 people from 10 different countries on Sir Richard Branson's home. And in the BVI. I didn't know what to expect, in the very beginning, I was a little worried that it was going to be like a fire festival, because I made the mistake like days before watching that stupid documentary, and then going and doing hours. But the cool thing was, is that Richard was there and the The island was still there, and the boats were still there. And we didn't have all those kinds of things problem. But when we got there, what was really interesting was we had people from all walks of life focused on one issue, and that was, what actions do we need to do? Or what can we do to to make some impact on protecting 30% of the world's oceans? Again, to quote Sylvia, that she was there she was here, she said, Well, that's a good start, but we need to protect it all. But right now, we're less than 10%. So we need that we have some work to do. And so you know, now what we had is we had we had artists, we had entrepreneurs, investors, philanthropic, you know, groups that said, you know, well, here's how we would do it. And even Richard had said to me, at one point, he's like, you know, how did you get so many people here, and I was just like, I don't know, I'm a weird person. And these people are super weird, too. And I guess we just feel normal here. He was like, well, he goes weird is good. He goes, just keep it up. So I think that's what it's going to take to make some kind of impact, such as bringing people together saying, hey, like, we're part of one team, we're, we're one group, like, you know, and then the other part of it is that you need to take this ego of, not necessarily individual ego, but organizational ego that needs to go away. Because we have to realize we're floating around on the same block in the solar system. Unless we all work together, nothing positive is going to happen. So I see that happening, world oceans day that the UN, I see it happening now I caught 25, which is now been dubbed the blue cup, that'll be in Santiago, Chile, the end of this year. So you're seeing groups from all over the world that are now kind of coming together and and using their resources. And so it's kind of like, it reminds me a little bit of that book. It was it was the Malcolm Gladwell tipping point. And he talked about how like you can, you can invite like 3000 people or you can invite like, you know, hundred people to have access to 3000 people and you have much more of an impact. And I think that's kind of what's happening here is like these little groups are masking, you know, kind of recognition, in some kind of like track record. And at some point, I see them all kind of joining together to be, you know, a really united effort. But it takes time, and it takes a little bit of growing pains and to get there.
Pete Turner 31:02
Hey, this is Pete a Turner from blinds, rock productions, we create podcasts around here. And if you your brand, or your company want to figure out how to do a podcast, just talk to me, I'll give you the advice on the right gear. The best plan is show you how to take the podcast that makes sense for you that's sustainable, that scalable and fun, hit me up at Pete at breakdown show. com Let me help I want to hear about it.
Jeremy McKane 31:24
And at some point, I see them all kind of joining together to be you know, a really united effort. But it takes time and it takes a little bit of growing pains in order to get there.
Pete Turner 31:33
I want to ask you, so one of the things is, you know, we all get cause fatigue, right? Like I'm pretty passionate about PTSD and trying to keep my fellow veterans alive. But also I've got a friend that's got ALS. And so now I'm passionate about ALS and trying to help find at least you know, something to alleviate their the speed of that disease. But I also love the ocean. And I also know and it's like, so it can be overwhelming, you know? And Jeremy, I guess what I'm asking this is, you know, I have more money than time, right? But I only have so much time. What do you want to say to you know, the standard person who's a millennial or middle aged like I am? And they're like, Hey, want to help? But I don't have time. I don't have that much money. You know, but I do care. So is there anything I can do even on a small scale?
Jeremy McKane 32:22
Yeah, well, so this is where this conversation gets really interesting, right? Because like, we all have one thing that we can do we can we can stop using these products, you know, and you know if they're if they're things that are harming the environment, other people who promote meatless Monday's right, that's, that's one thing that you can do for climate change. I try my very best to not use anything to go. This includes paper products, because we have some time in our head, we think, oh, gosh, no, as long as I'm not using plastic papers, Italy's better because if I have a degree, well, it does biodegrade. And when it does biodegrade, it creates methane, and methane is 25 times more potent. So it's like, all of these things are problems. So if we, if we know this, and now we're aware, we can actually do something, you know. So right off the bat, we can say what how do we how do we reduce our impact? And these are some ways trying to the best of your ability not to use anything that's single us. That's that's an easy thing to do. Now we get into kind of a conversation like, like you run a podcast, right? You could make a feature once a week or once a month, that's about the oceans or about whatever, say everybody has like a different stage. And if they realize what their resources are, that conversation changes a little bit, you know, I had a conversation with somebody who runs I don't want to say his name, because he may not mean want me to say but, but he's that he's like Jeremy because I write checks. He goes with anything that needs to happen. I can write checks, he feels kind of lame. He goes, What else can I do? And he has a TV show. And it's not a documentary style. I told her, I said, everyone that watches documentaries, they're already sold. But you have a sci fi TV show, why not do a study about how some alien race destroyed their planet? Because they didn't take care of the oceans, you know, start to kind of work on those kinds of things. The reason why I'm answering your question this way, is because there is no one way you know, this is like, this is not this is not a conversation with the Dalai Lama, there's, I can't make you one with the ocean, just an answer. But what I can tell you is that, you know, the first thing that we can do is we can start to look at what our impact is, what our what our stage presence is, and and where we can go as far as impact from there, and to every person that's different. And that's one of the reasons why I really wanted the ocean summit was because I knew I had all these different walks of life. And it's been amazing to see the people that have come forward saying, hey, well, this is what I'm going to one of the guys. He owns a company. It's a flip flop company called heart mine. His name is Jeremy as well, Stuart. And he's like, I hear that there's these microbes that I can use, I can make these like flip flops that will you know, biodegrade when they hit water. And I was like, you know, cool. So he's working on technologies to make a lesser impact on the environment. And I think when individuals do this, but more importantly, big corporations, then it becomes easier. And the reason why I say this is that look, if I go to Starbucks, which is very rare I do, I do go every now and then. But if I go to Starbucks, I try to get a porcelain mug. Because I'm know I'm going to be there. Right? That's that's how I can reduce the impact. But I actually didn't go to Starbucks to ask for a paper, plastic line cup. But they just give it to you. Because you just accept it. But you know, you can you have a choice. You have a you have a voice and you can use it. So I don't know if I really answered your question. I tried to do as best I could.
Pete Turner 35:22
No way. It's a hard question, right? Like, because cause fatigue is a real thing. And you really do only have some things. But those can be little things where it's easy to dismiss Little things like you can make 100 decisions that that add a little chip in the good favor, and then decide to every time you drive the car, you mash the gas as hard as you can. Because you're in a hurry, you know, like you just erased all of the good in that one point. You know, not one moment, you know, so it's Yeah, I struggled with it for sure. Because I,
Jeremy McKane 35:49
I think I think there's one word that sums it all up, it's best, your best is different than my best. Right? And I think that's the thing that we need to we can't we can't be comparing each other and being competitive in this space, because it does no good for the overall overall collective.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 36:03
Yeah. And I think just to add, I mean, I love what you're saying there, you know, about, we all have our own stage. And I think that's just, you know, everyone just should should realize that they can make an impact not only within themselves, but within their circles, and that they can, you know, put their super their superpowers, Pete you have superpowers, I have superpowers and put those superpowers to use for good. And so yeah, that's definitely we're so much in alignment with that. And, you know, for me, it's really about, you know, seeing these emerging technologies and companies that are developing, you know, these positive impact technologies and helping them amplify their voice through marketing. So that's really, you know, kind of where I'm at. And, you know, the other thing that I've noticed, personally, is that, you know, as I've become more aware, and done more work in the space, and network with more individuals that are, you know, very conscious about their consumption habits, it's, it's also impacting me and we, Jeremy and I had a conversation like, about, you know, not eating fish anymore. And I felt like, with all the work that I'm doing with the ocean space, it was hypocritical of me to continue to eat fish that, you know, Are you suffering from overfishing in so many areas I'm going to make make an exception for something like a lionfish, which is an invasive species, or, or maybe oysters, which I know are foreign. But yeah, I mean, I've just kind of seeing the, you know, personally, I am taking those, you know, small steps every day, you know, not going and using the reusable cups not doing the single use plastic and trying to reduce my or eat more vegan and more, you know, less have less meat in my diet as well. So,
Jeremy McKane 37:41
I mean, it goes back to though it goes back to what we said about the again, with the body analogy. It's like we're, we're treating the actual core issue. We're not treating the symptoms. You know, you mentioned fish. You know, overfishing is one of the greatest threats to the planet right now more than anything else, and then follow that I would say potential threat that is on there Horizon, a topic that actually came out of the ocean summit is deep sea mining. If we think climate change is a big deal right now, you haven't seen anything yet.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 38:07
Tell us why deep sea mining is
Jeremy McKane 38:09
Yeah, so all of these really cool technologies that we're actually talking over right now these like I got this really nice MacBook Pro, I got a I got an iPhone next to me, I got you know, I've got a car with all kinds of really cool stuff inside there. They have this things that that are needed to construct these rare earth minerals. Right? Well, where do we get rare earth minerals? Well, we mined for cobalt to make batteries, and lithium and all these kinds of things, typically in places that really need the money. And sometimes it's done with child labor, and all kinds of really dark, ugly things. But then when we say, well, we should stop doing that we shouldn't use child labor, we shouldn't, you know, strip mine the land, we still have a demand, we still want our latest Apple products. So where do we go? Why don't we why not go to the See, no one's down there, no one will know any different, you know. And so there's these little things called manganese nodules, right. And they're super important to have all these really cool, you know, little animals, they actually live on their next to these like hydrothermal vents and whatnot. And, you know, some of these areas are like 200 degrees Fahrenheit, you know, they're really crazy hot, and used to be, we thought nothing was down there. But it turns out, it's like the most biodiverse area on the entire planet. And so what happens when we start ripping all this stuff out and destroying all these, the ecosystems at the deepest part of the oceans are the least likely to adapt? Because they've, they've relied on the same food sources and systems for hundreds of millions of years. And if we disrupt that, we have no idea what that is going to mean, for us here on land.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 39:39
There's companies that are actually pursuing deep sea mining as alternative sources for their supply chains to create these products.
Jeremy McKane 39:47
Yeah, I mean, like, if I told you that you had a pawn in your backyard, and there was gold at the bottom, what would you do? Let's begin.
Pete Turner 39:55
Is there oil down there to keep drilling deeper?
Jeremy McKane 39:59
Yeah. And then, you know, it sounds all great. And on paper until you realize, but what maybe the long term effects are, it's all about ROI, right? It's like, yeah, I can get some short term gains, or, and it'd be awesome, you know, but my long term investment is not so good.
Pete Turner 40:13
Yeah, it's a balancing act, right? Because you want that new AI book or, or, you know, Tesla car, whatever it is, but you've got to scratch down a mountain or dig a hole in the ocean, to keep meeting the demands. And then we keep we take the used resources that we have, and sort of just put them back into the earth to do whatever they're going to do. And yeah, it's a real problem, like as we do the consumer thing to, to balance that there are some hopeful things though, like, so some Stanford PhDs just put out a paper, talking about converting methane to co2, which is, you know, a huge thing. So as
Jeremy McKane 40:48
we start even even cooler than that, is methane fuel cells that generate electricity. Oh, yeah,
Pete Turner 40:52
exactly right. And you don't even need batteries. So science is working on some of these problems. And hopefully, there's enough money getting into continue these kind of researches. And that's just, that's just two things with methane. Like, if we can turn methane into something less harmful, then we're doing better. However, we still have to control our consumption of things, you know, and it's so easy to go out and buy, buy, buy, buy, you know, and
Jeremy McKane 41:18
I can't believe I'm here, I'm here, I'm sorry. But I hear Cyril, golden syrup, Gucci, my ear from parlay. Uh, he was here right now, he said, everything is a design failure. You think about all the things we're talking about? Right? Yeah, its failure in design.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 41:29
Yeah, I mean, it gets, it gets back to the discussion of the circular economy. And I think then also, you know, really the basis for that, you know, educate education. And I think, you know, what we're doing here, what you're doing, Jeremy is, you know, getting the larger public to understand that, you know, they also need to change their consumption habits, but also, you know, make those demands of companies and corporations to create the packaging that will be biodegradable and dissolve water, and other types of, you know,
Jeremy McKane 42:03
those are, I think those are bridge technologies, though, just just while we're talking about that, because, again, about this whole idea about, you know, hey, we've got this plastic bag that turns into, you know, food, right, still absolving me of responsibility from doing the thing that I should be doing to begin with, you know, so I
Sandra Ponce De Leon 42:21
started design failure or what it what is that? And by that?
Jeremy McKane 42:27
I don't think it's a design of failure, because I think it serves a point, right, I think I think that just like priceless converting plastic into into fuel. Like we can't expect everybody on the planet all of a sudden, to just drive Tesla's that's unreasonable? And what are we going to do with all the petrol cars? I actually, my daughter holds Tesla stock. So I would like that to be the end game. Well, of course, I mean, I think that make no mistake, that is the future. But we're also sitting on 6070 year old battery technology that's so stupid, right? We have better technologies. And if we can focus on those, it's that we don't have to be really, you know, the planet the way we are to make this then. So that's a whole different story. But anyway, I digress.
Pete Turner 43:06
One of the problems with all these things, though, right, like, we always believe in science, but we also know that science makes a lot of mistakes on its way to a better solution. So, you know, at one point, we wanted to dry out the Everglades, because that was, you know, needed that land for people. And we do need more land for people. And we are creating more and more people you're talking about a problem with with the environment. You know, we're a terrible environmental partner, and yet they're going to be eight 910 billion of us and
Sandra Ponce De Leon 43:35
stop breeding people.
Jeremy McKane 43:37
I mean, seriously, like, how that's true. I have a friend that's working on a film on that very tough.
Pete Turner 43:43
Can we be as draconian as to say, we're going to cap the world population is 7.5 billion. Yikes. Scary?
Jeremy McKane 43:49
Yeah. You know, I, you know, I look at me individually, and I look at you know, I'm 42 now, and, you know, I remember being 18 and knowing everything, and now I'm 42. And I know nothing, right. And I i think that that collectively as as a human civilization on this planet, like, I think we were the same thing. And there was a period of time where we thought that, you know, bloodletting was how we solve problems, you know, and then we realized that that's probably not the best thing to do. And we started working on things but we learned, we learned from our mistakes, you know, we we attempted to go to space. So we attempted to go to the moon several times, we had some failures. But guess what, we made it happen. We've got a space station. Now we have now a commercial spaceflight company that's publicly traded, this is not possible without failure. And so if we are afraid of failure, then nothing is going to happen. But you know, as what is it Wayne Gretzky says, You missed 100% of the shots you don't take. Yeah, get out there and take some shots.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 44:39
Love it, love it. And that's such an inspiring note. to just share. I mean, you know, think be and you are such a great shining example of that. You know, I think that you know, what you what you're doing is so inspiring. You to Pete, you to Pete,
Pete Turner 44:55
steal compliments. That's one of my favorite things.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 44:58
Jeremy, you know, what's the what's the next for you? I know you're coming. You're on your way to San Francisco. The ocean summit coming up? What else do you have going on?
Jeremy McKane 45:07
Yeah, so we're planning ocean summit to actually and so actually, one of the one of the things that we're doing is, you know, we obviously be here Oh, we're going to do this event on Necker. It sounds super exclusive. That's the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted inclusive it, you know. So, in fact, one of the things that we did, we had scientists and artists that would have never been able to go to a place like that last year, but we made it possible for those things to happen. So we created this website, ocean summit.org. And we told people like, if this is something that you feel like you can contribute in some way, then you know, put your information in there, tell us what you do. And let's figure out how we can work together. Right, you know, I'm working on that. And on this particular year, we're going to do kind of some breakout sessions and stuff on Necker and then we're going to go for a couple days, we're going to go out in the boats, we're going to go to the various places in the BVI work with the locals, the schools and try to actually share with them what's you know, what we're actually trying to accomplish globally, but start where we're having these conversations, and seeing how we can help empower these communities as well. And then when I I'm toying with the ideas, I'm trying to gather as many like ocean innovators that I can find on the planet, right. And I think that there's a huge void in the space of like, really rewarding these innovators for doing something amazing. Because a lot of times we don't really know about it, right? What is how cool to be to have like this, you know, award ceremony for ocean innovators, right, that we're actually doing something I've been to hackathons before. People want lots of money for hackathons, and then they just disappear. I don't know, I guess they just go to the beach. But this is one of the things that we're actually planning right now is trying to figure out, you know, who's in this space that's wanting to do some really cool stuff. And we're trying to put everybody together so we can all because that's what it's going to take going back to that unification thing, we're going to all have to work together, we're going to have to set our organizational egos aside, you know, because and by the way, when we talk about protecting 30% of the world's oceans, we're not talking about forever, we have to give the oceans time to regenerate. So that we have, we have we can we can rely on it for hundreds of years after work on. Yeah, and it's been shown that those marine protected areas, the fish, come back, you know, five fold or more. So yeah, super important. I went to the first step who in in the first taboo in Fiji and allow group and I sat down with the paramount chief, and he told me the stories of how they count fish and how they create these top was top who is a traditional word for forbidden or taboo. And when these areas are set, no fishing, you're not even allowed to go through there. And in most cases, but what they found is that these, these fish just regenerate and repopulate. And it's actually better. And they would go count fish know when to release that taboo. But somewhere along the line, we just, we don't do it like we did in the old way. So. So I hope that we can kind of, you know, use a lot of indigenous beliefs and knowledge and using kind of a modern spin on it to help kind of scale that up to multiple cities. And countries.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 48:05
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we need to learn from our elders and civilizations that have been, you know, working on the land in the oceans for thousands of years and generations. So Well, is there anything that we didn't get get to touch on, Jeremy, that you wanted to give a shout out to? Or about? Yeah, I mean,
Jeremy McKane 48:27
I don't know. I mean, I feel like I talk about this stuff all the time. I feel like sometimes I bore people with the details, but but I guess what I would say is like, the one thing I would really like to leave everybody with is that if you feel empowered enough to want to do something, maybe you're a programmer, maybe you're a designer, maybe you have some cool talent. What can you do in this space? Can you do something where we can all benefit together, maybe there's something that we can do to help you. It all starts with kind of bringing everyone together. And so I invite everyone to just say what you do with the ocean, something I may never personally do business with you. But there might be other people inside this crew that would readily do business with you. And I think the more that we communicate to each other and, and kind of an open society, I really do feel that that's the first step for us to really unite our efforts.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 49:16
100% Well, thank you so much, Jeremy. As always, it's been a fantastic conversation. And I'm looking forward to seeing you when you're out here in San Francisco. And Pete, thank you so much for having me on. Break it down show. It's been super fun. It's always fun to have a chance to co host with you Sandra, you know, and I love pushing the narrative on things, especially if they make me uncomfortable. In this case, I love talking about the ocean because you know, it is a massive area for us to be working.
Pete Turner 49:45
And Jeremy, I will offer you this. Let's talk about how to put my podcast to work for the cause. Because
Jeremy McKane 49:50
let's do it. You know, I the one thing
Pete Turner 49:52
I do have surplus of his podcast awesomeness. So let me contribute sense of your podcast. Awesome.
Jeremy McKane 50:02
Yeah, 100%, sir. So I
Pete Turner 50:05
will put this up and do all we can to support what you're doing because it's important.
Jeremy McKane 50:09
Thank you. Thank you very much. And I really appreciate you guys have
been a real honor to be here with you guys.
Sandra Ponce De Leon 50:15
Thank you Jeremy.
