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Wil Reilly – Taboo, 10 Facts We Can’t Talk About - Dr. Wil Reilly has written a challenging book. He tees up taboo topics and drags us through realities and data to unseat us from our beliefs. Taboo; 10 Facts We Can't Talk About gets into topics like: Cultural Appropriation, Black Lives Matter, the IQ gap, racial issues, and white supremacy in the US.
Get Wil's book here Dr Reilly is a professor at Kentucy State University. Wil and Pete A Turner go through several of the chapters touching on the topics that, as Pete said, unseat him from his own beliefs and hypocrisy. Here comes a challenging show that's a fun ride. Get ready to be uncomfortable as we learn a little something about ourselves. #podcast #KSU #TBCU #politics #taboo #race #whitesupremecy #newsbias #author #phd #politicalscience #episode #groundtruth #bantu #black #white #asian #education #facts #research |
Haiku
There’s no white privilege
Black men killing each other
Taboos hide the truth
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Join us in supporting Save the Brave by making a monthly donation
Executive Producer/Host/Intro: Pete A. Turner
Producer: Damjan Gjorgjiev
Writer: Bojan Spasovski
There’s no white privilege
Black men killing each other
Taboos hide the truth
Similar episodes:
Wilfred C Reilly
DeVone Boggan part 2
Michele Rigby Assad
Join us in supporting Save the Brave by making a monthly donation
Executive Producer/Host/Intro: Pete A. Turner
Producer: Damjan Gjorgjiev
Writer: Bojan Spasovski
Transcription
Pete Turner 0:00
Everybody Pete a Turner, executive producer and host of the break it down show. Today's guest is returning Dr. Will Riley who wrote a book, taboo. 10 facts you can't talk about any wills book, he really does get into taboo topic. He challenges why our thoughts on race relations on Black Lives Matter. He challenges beliefs on cultural appropriation, IQ, validity, all these different things that you can't normally talk about.
Everybody Pete a Turner, executive producer and host of the break it down show. Today's guest is returning Dr. Will Riley who wrote a book, taboo. 10 facts you can't talk about any wills book, he really does get into taboo topic. He challenges why our thoughts on race relations on Black Lives Matter. He challenges beliefs on cultural appropriation, IQ, validity, all these different things that you can't normally talk about.
He does, and he delivers the numbers and I love this book. It's just something that needed to happen a long time ago. Let me give you a little taste. One of the things he talks about is if you took the number of deaths, it's not assault rifles that matter. It's hand guns, black dudes killing black dudes. I can't talk about that. I'm not a black dude. But he can he's a PhDs and political scientist, oh, by the way, and a black dude who teaches at a traditionally black university. So he takes the numbers and says here's where the real problem is. If we actually give a damn This is the conversation we have to have. But we can't even have the conversation. So how on earth? Are we ever going to solve this problem? A love wheel does. I love how he pushes the norms and provides evidence to say, hey, you think you know about this? You don't. I was lucky enough to write a blurb for his book. And the thing I kept saying was I keep kept unseating me from my norm. He forced me to deal with the fact that I didn't know enough about what I thought I knew a lot about. And I love that about will. I love that about this chat, and you're going to love well, also, a couple things real quick before we get started. It's great if you help support the show, so obviously, you can go buy t shirts, but just in general, share the show. Tell your friends about it. Engage with me. I'm glad to talk to you. You guys are my friends. I want to hear from you. No matter what country you're in. I love it. I love that you're in Macedonia, Spain, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand. Hey, cat. I love you guys. I love hanging out and talking and throwing these shows out there. Give me your ideas, by the shirts share the show. That's how you help one More thing and you know what I'm going to say next, save the brave the brave.org. Go to the Donate tab, click on Donate, click on a monthly amount. If you'd buy a veteran lunch once a month, that's what we're talking $25 do that will take that money will put it to work and will actually save veteran lives veterans that have PTSD. If you want to understand it, let me know I will tell you Scott and I will do a whole thing about save the brave and we will explain what we do and how we help change these veterans lives and get them going in the right direction. And guess what happens after that? They just bring it back and they start to serve and give back even more and this is a worthy cause. Please support save the brave. Alright Dr. Weil Riley Here he comes.
Joel Manzer 2:40
Lions rock productions.
Jay Mohr 2:45
This is JayMohr and
unknown 2:46
this is Jordan. Dexter from the Navy Sebastian youngsters, Rick maronna. Stewart Copeland is Andy
Summers discuss Baxter. Gabby Reese is Rob bell.
Jon Leon Guerrero 2:55
This is Jon Leon Guerrero
Pete Turner 2:57
and this is Pete a Turner
wil reilly 3:01
Hey, how are you? This is Dr. Will Riley, you're listening to the break it down show with Pete Turner.
Pete Turner 3:08
Yes, will Riley is fascinating he look, he wrote a book called taboo, I was proud to write a blurb for it. And it's one of those books that it unseats you from your beliefs in a way that is not very fun. I guess I'll let you introduce the book will because it's a I've been waiting for someone to write this. If I was to write a book, that would not be the first book I picked. I'm so stoked that you did because this this message needed to get out there.
Unknown Speaker 3:37
Yeah. So in terms of the book first I was going to open by saying Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Already and I want to be original for you. P thank you for that. That's a you know, neither here nor there. In terms of the book, taboo taboo, as the name indicates, is a book that looks at kind of the things that you're not supposed to discuss in society, though. There are few of these I mean, the first chapter looks at the claims of the Black Lives Matter movement, that we've got a near race war going on in the United States. thousands, or at least hundreds of unarmed black men are killed annually by Leos. By law enforcement officers. What I find is that there's really no element of truth to that. In a typical year, the number of unarmed black men shot specifically by white cops is about 15. Sometimes 20 70% of the individuals shot by law enforcement officers happened to be Caucasian whites are Hispanics, the group's most likely to be shot by police or poor whites or recent legal immigrants. So I unpack this and then and I think I might make this part a separate book. At some point. I go through about five of the Black Lives Matter cases and look at what actually happened in the Alton Sterling situation, for example, where the guy happened to be an accused sex offender. The police had arrived because of a report of him brandishing a gun. It's a What else physical fight between him and the police. As I recall this when the gun falls off his belt, unfortunately, he gets shot. That was a fairly typical case. So chapter one looks at Black Lives Matter. Chapter Two looks at the claim that there is epidemic interracial crime in the USA, especially from whites in general. So I break down the actual figures on interracial violence. And one of the things I generally say about this is the person most likely to kill you as your ex husband or ex wife. That's still the case. In terms of interracial crime, even against whites, black people make up 13.7% of the country commit 15.3% of the violent crimes against whites, there's no war. But on the other end of the dial, this is even more notable in reverse whites commit about 11% of all crimes against blacks, maximum white criminals choose black victims about 3% of the time. So I'm kind of being wonky with the numbers here but this is presented in an interesting fashion and the point is just this is not happening, especially from the white side. There's a chapter on race and IQ. There's a chapter on problems with the All right, there's a chapter on cultural appropriation of white privilege. Two things I don't really think exist. I mean, cultural appropriation would require me to take off my suit jacket from Britain and not go to a Japanese restaurant with my girlfriend tonight, if we were going to we're going to take this seriously. Um, so it's just all of the things that you're kind of not supposed to say and modern, quote unquote, upper middle class discourse that I kind of run through and I asked, Is this true? A very few of them I find some support for but most No, no epidemic of interracial crime don't find much evidence of white privilege. The cops aren't out there just murdering men. So on down the line, one chapter I want to squeeze in there as we go into final edits is essentially can men be women? You know, you have the the trans movement, very active right now. And the claim is that gender is just sort of a social construct. I think there's a lot of evidence that it's not that if you took me or paid and you let us work out for a couple weeks and put us in a ball gown, we would not necessarily be able on par with women when it comes to aggression, verbal IQ, a whole bunch of other things. But anyway, so that's taboo, all this stuff you're not supposed to say, Hey, this
Pete Turner 7:08
is Pete a Turner from the break it down Show checking in real quick to ask you this, john Scott and I all support, save the brave with our time, our location, our effort and our money. Each month, we give a small amount. Do the same with us go to save the brave.org click on the donate tab, pick an amount that you want to come out each month and they will handle all the rest. I stand behind these folks. Thank you so much. Let's get back to the show.
Unknown Speaker 7:32
But anyway, so that's taboo, all this stuff you're not supposed to say.
Pete Turner 7:35
Yeah, so if things and all these topics, you have your own established belief, and maybe it moves a little bit, but I would say this is obviously just a guess. But once you sort of get set in your mindset of where the race violence is, you're not moving very far. You know, it's unlikely that you're going to move, I don't know 30 degrees left or right on the topic because It's just it's hard to challenge your own belief on these things and everything. So question but but you're really grabbing actual numbers on. I remember when we were doing stuff with the advanced feat, the advanced piece, folks, it's a bogans program basically he case manages the most violent people in a town like Sacramento or Richmond. And he just he works them. This gives them someone who believes in them and they get them to stop being, by and large stop being violent criminals. And then that was right around the time the Black Lives things matter. But what is it? I guess my question to you is this. If you go into a store and you robbed somebody, you've committed a crime. Okay, external social things aside, you can't go rob people. And then if you go, and you reach into a car and you grab after a cop's gun, it's just a file home. You're trying to attack a cop and go after his gun. This is a life I've been I'm a combat guy. So you know, I always think like, that's a lifetime. death struggle. And you know, I don't know when you're going to stop, so you're going to get shot?
Unknown Speaker 9:07
Well, I have a lot of respect for police officers for that reason, because they're in kind of that gray zone between that combat soldier and the tough civilian. Yeah. I mean, I've talked about these exact situations. I mean, you're describing Michael Brown specifically, right? I go to the gun range once or twice a week just to keep my skills up. And I mean, we've had this conversation. I mean, what would you do if you're an Officer Darren Wilson situation and everyone there is it happened we had this conversation with either just a tough regular guy, and tough in quotes, but a good night, man, a shooter, or someone who was say, National Guardsmen, a former Marine, something like that. There are no cops that and everyone to a man said I would just shoot it. Yeah, if someone reached into my car, and they were attempting to grab my firearm, and they had their hand on the front of my chest and I didn't know this person, I would just shoot them. Yeah, there was no dissenting voice. What made that so difficult in the case of a police officer, I think is the You are trained to such an extent that you're not a member of an occupying army and you're also not just some guy in a fight with another guy who can do if necessary to defend your wife right yours to go through it's essentially like Ouro he for combat engagements but every step but the last is non lethal, you know attempt to engage in conversation attempt to disengage attempt to bring in backup units attempt to use the non lethal. So yeah, cops have a tough job. Um, and what we found when we looked at the Black Lives Matter cases myself and Jane Lingle, my saintly research associate is that most of them fell into this kind of unsympathetic zone. By that I mean, it's not that the cops never made any mistakes. In the case of Freddie Gray, for example, one allegation was that they gave him a quote unquote rough ride, ie there'd been a tough pursuit when the police had encountered Mr. Grade runaway. There'd been a bit of a scuffle when he was captured. They were probably at angry. So they put them in the back of a police van, allegedly, and kind of drove around roughly for a while. And that and a pre existing injury might have contributed to the spinal injury that he suffered. So no one is saying that the police behave perfectly and all these situations but what you almost never find is a black man or a white man for that matter being unprovoked at least slaughtered on the way to church. Pretty much every case was what you're describing. There's some kind of altercation between the guy and the officers. Weapons are usually drawn and the police respond with violence, and there's much much more scrutiny on that violence than there would be if you are I did it, or if someone did it in a combat zone overseas that that really just can't be denied. But just one quick comment then I want to engage your responses but I mean, the Alton Sterling case keep sticking in mind. So I mean, Alton Sterling is one of those guys, this throughout the South. was kind of the the Trayvon Martin the Michael Brown. This was a Louisiana man who's often described as having been gunned down in broad daylight by the police. And if you actually look through that case, which I do for about five pages of taboo, what happened was that a local shopkeeper called the police and reported a man brandishing a gun in the street. Um, and the guy wasn't just out there, he happened to be running a bootleg CD business. So he had accounts very, but either books full of hundreds of bootleg movies and CDs or an actual stand for these illegal product, right. So the cops show up. And they find this bootlegger, and if they run his name through any kind of dashboard computer, I don't know exactly whether they did or not. They would have also found that he was a convicted pedophile. He'd been convicted on at least one occasion of sexual knowledge of a minor child. I'm pretty easy to find. I found that in about 10 minutes. I can't imagine the police didn't. So you're approaching this guy who you know has these pretty disturbing convictions who's got a gun on him. a scuffle breaks out. Sterling apparently reaches for the gun and he shot and the presentation for this in sort of the Black Lives Matter ecosphere was another innocent brother kill. I think virtually everyone who's familiar with the case whether or not you think the cops made some mistakes by not saying freeze, Drop your weapon, whatever, understands why that happened. And that's most of the cases not perfect police behavior but not Boy Scouts either.
Pete Turner 13:33
Yeah, I've writing down notes so that I don't lose track of some of the things I want to ask you about because this stuff is is tricky. First off, let's openly acknowledge and we've had Fred Leland on the show number of times we talked about this. We always as a default, as a society, we seem to say well, they just need more training. But the reality will is this. The person in charge of training at fill in the blank police station doesn't Like, what am I going to do with all this extra surplus time and money that I have? I just, I just can't give out enough of this training. We know that that's not true. You know, there's, there's actually and then here's the, here's how long the line is, are people saying I would like to spend twice as much of my police force to ensure that we have a higher level of training, because, you know, a third of our police force will have to be in training at all times, developing capacity, maintaining capacity and searching for new capacity, you know, like, nobody's in that line. So sort of, like Sergeant Major always says, it got what you got these your cops, and some are going to be shitheads. And some are going to be officer, you know, nice guy, and they're going to be great. But to expect something significantly more for the cost. We're already paying. It didn't happen in brother.
Unknown Speaker 14:50
Yeah, I'd say that. It's it's mostly correct. I mean, also, obviously, I think, Pete, I think you and I can agree that you never want an innocent person to die or these sort of cliches. we'd all like to live forever. Everyone's grandmother deserves a beautiful flower garden. I'm not attempting to make fun of anything here. But there is an idea of an ideal society that most people have. Yeah, but I mean, in real life, the reality is that utopia is literally the Latin word for no place. That's right. You generally do have, as you said, what you have. And it's striking how free how rarely, extreme police violence happens. In all honesty, yes. I mean, if you go to a resource and this isn't me, as you know, travie center right political pundits saying this if you go to w w w dot killed by police.net, or you go to the Washington Post, the counted project, there's a list of everyone who dies in confrontation with the police in a typical year. And what you'll find is I mean, you said there are 15 million to 20 million individual police patrols a year. Imagine each one of those involves four to six stops. So out of that hundred million data set of cases there are about 1000 police shoot In a typical year, yeah, I'm the number in let's say, the representative year of 2015. that involve African Americans at all was 258. Yeah, I mean, so we're about we're usually about 25 to 30%. Right. And that that reflects crime rate. There is a slightly but very definitely higher rate of crime in the black community, Matt stratospheric anymore, but it would make sense that if we're 14% of the country were 30% of the police encounters. You take that group of 258, you find that less than 100 people, I think this is all races actually were shot while they were unarmed. About 17 of those are going to be white cops shooting black men specifically. So I mean, this isn't something that happens a great deal. I mean, if you're going to talk about problems in the police sphere, police officers are shot far more often than police officers shoot unarmed black men, right. So one of the harsh realities of leadership is that sometimes you have to say that's an acceptable level of risk. The typical police department in a typical year is going to have zero shootings of black males by officers. And it's going to have zero shootings or officers by black males. I'm in the Kentucky State Capitol, which has no shortage of white and black males that will fight. Yeah. And I mean, we have had none of either for I could be wrong by the six year period seven year period. So to some extent, I mean, you're not going to double your entire police forces training budget to stop something that happens once every eight years. Yeah, that's correct. I mean, so the entire idea that this was a national problem was a spontaneously generated, if you will idea of specific activist movement, Black Lives Matter. Grew up in response to a number of cases and I think the leaders of that movement, if you look at Shaun King or DeRay McKesson were smart guys who saw some potential there. There is I often say the demand for bigotry exceeds the supply There's a great demand for racial conflict to justify these massive programs, affirmative action and so forth. And there's not that much. So police violence seemed like new fertile ground. We're not saying it's ordinary white citizens fighting us anymore. Now it's the cops. But again, when people like you and I unpack that we find no, it's not there. The number of people that found this category each year is 18. More people are killed by bees, wasps and Hornets.
Pete Turner 18:24
Yeah. And I want to I want to take that point you made about utopia or utopia, and and amplify it. This is a little bit old. But the guy the guy who tells the story in the story that Thomas Moore and Erasmus are telling the guy who tells the stories, that guy named hoffa day it is his name literally means the purveyor of nonsense. So like, Yeah, it's great. It's so you have this purveyor of nonsense talking about this perfect place because it's all this sort of this wrapped up thing. And so when people say utopia, I love it because look fall victim to this too. They don't know enough about what they're talking about even know what they're talking about, you know, it's It doesn't work that way up, I want to ask you this. And in part because you're you're the black guy in this conversation. And I never can get a straight answer from someone from the black community on the record. So maybe you if you don't have to look, I'm not trying to put you in a spot. And I don't think it's a hard question. But I do want to soften your requirement is their responsibility culturally within the black community to learn how to engage a police officer in a positive way I get that the system is negative and the perceptions are such that it's very hard to do that. But I got pulled over twice in the last, let's say five months, one time driving over 90 miles an hour in Georgia, which apparently is barely against the law. But you know, I had my hands high on the wheel. I didn't fish around for anything. I sat still at a time I was gonna, I'm a combat guy. I want to know where people's hands are. And so I said, I'm going to go to my You know, my wallet which is in my pocket? Do you mind if I grab that? And the guys like, Yeah, I don't, you know, and I, I am so concerned about their concern for their safety, that, you know, I will let them grab my wallet. I don't want to get shot. You know, that was not the case. When I talked to black dudes, you know, they have a much more combative look. And I, I don't particularly care to have my freedom challenged by a police officer. I don't trust in general police officers. I know great police officers that I love. But I don't know who's walking up to that thing. And they're the one entity that can strip your freedom, freedom in an instant on based on their judgment. So I definitely don't like that. But I also respect the fact that they want to go home alive.
Unknown Speaker 20:43
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, the short answer, I'll just answer the question. Yeah, I think obviously, that as any adult citizen, especially an adult male, you have a duty to learn how to do basic things when it comes to engaging violence and So like, and I don't I guess the reason I hesitated I don't necessarily think this is just a black thing.
Pete Turner 21:05
Okay. Agreed. Agreed?
Unknown Speaker 21:07
Yeah, I think we focused because of where these activists chose to go. I think we focus more on confrontations with black men. Again, the people most likely to get shot seem to be recent immigrants, poor whites, if you look at where police shootings are concentrated, and I would imagine that quote unquote, hillbillies that term this disliked around here, recent immigrants from Mexico or Italy have a lot of the same issues that African Americans might. But I mean, for all those groups. When I was in Chicago, I was a teacher in the City Colleges for a while, which is interesting if you want an in city urban teaching experience, Malcolm X and Harry Truman and all these schools, and I know that we offered courses on how to interact with the police and the justice system. I taught primarily at Truman but I would imagine these were at every one of the colleges. And it was basic stuff like don't show up to court in a white t shirt and sweatpants. Yeah. Same thing with police. And I mean, I didn't sit, in fact a ton almost entirely a trimmer when it comes to this sector anyway, that's that's not really relevant entirely. But Sorry, just thinking about my teaching experience, that's totally irrelevant. Anyway, basically, we did the same thing when it came to interactions with the police. And if you ever sat in on part of one of these classes, it's entertaining stuff, to some extent Chris Rock as a routine about this. But if you ask the typical urban young guy, whether that's African American, Irish, Italian, Hispanic, whatever, how would you respond if a police officer comes to your window and you've been stopped for you think you've been stopped for no reason? The response initially is always something like I would ask them why the that was stopping me for no reason whatsoever. I mean, I've had enough of these punk ass police, and it's just sort of you would instruct people like No, that's not what you would say, you know, Mr. Jenkins or Mr. mcgillicuddy. Even if you feel that you've been harassed to some slight extent, I mean, what you would say is How can I help you? Do you need to see license and registration? So yeah, I think that it is definitely very helpful. And this is something that high schools or junior colleges should cover to teach people how to interact with the police. And I have no doubt that when you get into young males and working class environments, and that certainly includes African American, you're going to have a lot more dislike for or hostility toward the police than you would have on average. Right. So I don't think police are saints, but I don't think ordinary citizens are saying cyber, the more polite and logical you are when you're encountering some police duty patrol Sergeant who's doing a 12 hour shift, the more likely both of you guys are to leave happy and with everything intact. So yeah, I think that needs to be emphasized. I don't think anyone would even deny in normal conversation rather than in the politically correct world. That working class African American men are more likely to be rude to the police. So yeah, the nicer you are to the police within reason you're not gonna let them give you a beating. But I mean, the nicer you are to the person least within reason the less likely you are to get in trouble
Pete Turner 24:02
yeah I got pulled over twice and and you know, middle aged white man who's visible aside both times going a lot faster than I was supposed to be going you know because that's just happens this la we drive fast around here another time that I get a ticket but that's partly because I said you know what I was going too fast I'm sorry. One time I was in a rental car and I was like I was just driving with the flow of traffic and he's like yeah, I know everybody goes fast and they let me go maybe I caught a benefit because more mostly because of my middle age you know kind of the old man nature but for sure by respecting the fact that they want to go humble live I definitely always attribute that to anytime I deal with police and and having them be a little bit you know, more square with me. But let me ask you this to again, black community if we are really worried about young black men getting shot you come from Chicago, you just talked about teaching there. Doesn't it behoove us as a society to focus on You know, it's black men shooting black men. It's Mexican shooting black man. It's people of color. It's young men of color. They're the ones who predominantly are dying from gunshot wounds. I've looked at the data, if you are, if you are a female or a person who's Asian or white and so and I'm using the big term Asian, not just, you know, the Far East, folks. They're not shooting each other. It's it's Native Americans, Hispanic dudes, black dudes that are shooting each other if we actually give a fuck at all, are we? Are we bound to at least deal with the bigger problem will or is I mean, you're a poor political scientist. Isn't that where the effort is? If we actually give a fuck? Isn't that where we're supposed to put our effort?
wil reilly 25:46
Yeah, there's a lot there. Um, I'm going to take some notes here, telling Irish 85% crime today
Unknown Speaker 25:58
and then 25 So first of all, I mean, I think that and this I don't think you're saying this, but I do think it's important to recognize that the contemporary level of violence among black and Hispanic men is an artifact of our era. To some extent, I don't think that's a racial or genetic or anything along those lines, right. It's not genetic, for sure. Right. Yeah. I haven't gotten I had a conversation recently with a guy who was kind of all light politically and who was asking, Well, can you imagine what Chicago would be like, if it was all white? There'd be almost no crime. And I'm kind of a connoisseur of Chicago history. And I said, well, the last time Chicago was all my, it was run by Al Capone's boys became Ballantine's day was the mob is tough. Yeah, Valentine's Day wasn't all that romantic those days. But I mean, it was you had the mob, the Irish mob up north, the boil crew. Can I jump in for
Pete Turner 26:48
a second on you and say it because I love this. This is great. Over at Union Station, the big station downtown Union Station, you can put your finger in the holes of the columns. where there were gunfights and then you can see the splash marks where they've patched them and they just didn't pack bucket. There's too many bullets. You know, those shots. Those are 45 those things probably came out of a tommy gun, you know, during some kind of crazy ass
Unknown Speaker 27:14
firefight at the train station. Yeah, a lot of those mob guys were World War One veterans. Yeah, they knew how to use the Thompson machine gun. The tommy gun would Yeah, I think that shoots that's a machine gun that shoots a 45 slug. I mean, that's a hell of a weapon. Yeah, that's what gangster movies that has the drum on it. Right? So I mean, the crime rate for Italian and Irish American males through 1950 was probably pretty similar. I'd have to go city by city I know Chicago's right, but to the crime rate for black and Hispanic males today. So that's not excusing the violence. It's now a problem in my community that we need to solve. But that's just a note. If you can't stack for people who drink you know, if you have a large urban vertical slums, you're going to have a crime problem. Yeah. And if you brilliantly put those near downtown to provide as access to jobs you're gonna have a Chicago level crime problem or Detroit level crime problem. Anyway, so but that that is the history Italians Irishman so I did this in the past. But yeah, today, there's no secret about where gunfire is primarily concentrated. And I think there is an attempt on the political left to disguise this to a pretty ridiculous degree. If you look at these statistics on gun violence from say every town USA, what they always say is that there are 30,000 gun deaths a year. What they neglect to mention is that 19,000 of those are individual suicide, right? You don't want those to happen, of course, but in my opinion, some of those are almost reasonably honorable. There are people with unpayable debts, there are people trying to leave an inheritance to our family. They're people that have failed in their profession. That to me is their business. I'll say that openly. Yeah, so you've got 11,000 gun murders of those 82% if you talk to any competent Elio source, our gang related murders Those are black and Hispanic males. So the number of citizens that actually kill other citizens and a gunfight is miniscule. If you look at the number of murders of, say, middle class white women, if you look at the FBI data, and then you try to break that down by the economic status of different regions of the country that's literally in the hundreds, not the thousands. So 82% of the gun murders that do exist are to some extent, gangbangers killing each other. And the gang scene in the USA Today is about 80 to 90%, black and Latino, Hispanic. So this is actually very important. This is this should have been one of the taboos. If you look at the actual data on crime, you see that the conversation we're having on crime is almost irrelevant. This is point I guess, point one is so not genetic. Point two is actual data on crime completely challenges, the contemporary upper middle class conversation that we're having. So we talked a lot about mass shooting. I'm using any real definition of a mass shooting, right like more than three people killed by a somewhat accurate shooter. There are about nine mass shootings in a typical year, right? If you go beyond mass shootings to semi automatic weapons, because as you know, most of the audience probably knows automatic weapons are basically illegal the United States. If you go beyond mass shootings, to semi automatic assault rifles, rifles all in kill about 485 people in a typical year, that's less than knives less than fists, most gun violence. 80% of gun violence is gangbangers shooting each other with cheap hand guns that can be easily purchased. So the question is, how do you stop that? But talking about it requires getting into this taboo space where we say okay, 54% of the murders involve black nudes, not even Hispanics, Italian Americans, whatever they involve young black men. There are other concentrations of death. Whites dramatically lead when it comes to suicide. But if we're focused on murder, how do we solve that problem in the black community, black community, black community, and people are very reluctant to have that conversation. Right.
Pete Turner 31:07
Yeah, I mean, and that's kind of why I was asking you because I knew you would be able to, to talk about it in a way that makes a lot more sense
Unknown Speaker 31:13
if you're actually asking for a solution. Okay, I think we opened with one. Um, one thing that's very important to remember about crime is that crime is not committed by men, or for that matter by poor whites or blacks or something like that. Those are massive groups, right crime is committed by a small number of individual criminals. And we started this program by talking about someone you know, a casual friend actually has a program where at a mid sized city like Sacramento, they identified the top 25 criminal offenders or possible criminal offenders during a period where they don't have to pursue them, say a period of probation. And they do something like offer them a job, possibly in the security field, and that dramatically reduces crime. I think that's a solution to this almost everywhere. To some extent, even in a city as big as Chicago, I would bet that if you identified the top 1000 young male fighters, which might be 600 African American men, 200 ethnic white men, 200 Hispanic men, and you were able to offer those guys something like whether it's a forced military career allowed the Foreign Legion, whether that would have caused some problems with the military, whether that is Civilian Conservation Corps type real work, whether that's something in the security field, if you took those thousand guys off the streets, theoretically, the same thing would happen if you just killed them, but I don't recommend that dramatic drop in crime. You'd see crime dropped by 40 to 50%. From the reviews I've read a bit. So that is the solution to some extent, you identify where crime actually is happening. And an incredibly disproportionate percentage of Blue Collar Crime happens among white poor white and black men under 30 lower class in urban areas. You can predict who's very likely to commit crimes. If you identify those people and offer them something else, you get less crime. The question is how to do that. both left and right oppose that, by the way.
Pete Turner 33:08
Hey, this is Pete a Turner from lions rock productions, we create podcasts around here. And if you your brand or your company want to figure out how to do a podcast, just talk to me. I'll give you the advice on the right gear. The best plan is show you how to take a podcast that makes sense for you that's sustainable, that scalable and fun. Hit me up at Pete at breakdown show. com Let me help. I want to hear about it.
wil reilly 33:32
both left and right, oppose that, by the way.
Pete Turner 33:34
Yeah. Well, you know, we don't want to actually solve problems.
Unknown Speaker 33:38
So there's probably a horrible truth to that if you're talking about, you know, the no term limits. Aaron Congress. My God.
Pete Turner 33:44
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know that term limits would solve it either. Then you'd have a bunch of people scrambling trying to get their job on case it didn't. We talked about this last time. If we eliminated K Street there just be a j Street. Anyhow, the other thing that's interesting about that This and you talked a number of times in the book and, and seriously so the book is called taboo. And by the time this show comes out, it should be out. And it's fantastic. It will make you think it will make you go cat dang it. I'm wrong again, like a lot. And I pride myself on knowing a lot about social issues and will kept just nailing me with facts actual facts from an actual PhD who has an actual license to to tell me these things. Thanks, man. Yeah, no problem. So, so if not DNA, and I am going to put you on the spot a little bit because we're using a definition that I'm proposing, but it's an academic one, then its culture, right? Anything not defined by DNA is culture. Yeah, culture is hard to hard wrap your hands around, but that we use that definition, how much of this stuff all of it, then let me back up and say this to my time of combat zones has informed me that the specter is always significantly worse than the actual thing itself. Oh, my gosh, that is JSON body. They're going to get me everywhere. In reality, they're barely operating in that area at all. Could they come get you? Yes. On this one corner in this giant city of a million people, you know, is it going to be the end of your life? Yes. But for 999,999 other people, it's not. And it's just a, it's a place where you can go get Dim Sum if you feel like it, or Ethiopian, you know, you have all these options. So, at what point is this a cultural problem, which makes it a super wiggly multivariate, no reliable path out kind of problem.
Unknown Speaker 35:34
So there are two things there. First of all, I've never experienced military level combat situation. But I like that point that nothing is as bad as you imagine it is. I found that to be very true. Just living my own life, whether that's traveling to the developing world, or just living in a lot of the places I've lived in. Yeah, because I'm not really a gated community sort of dude. I mean, I've lived in the hood a bunch of times because a dog and a gun are cheap as versus a McMansion. And I mean, living on Chicago, for example, you frequently hear comments like the south side, isn't there gunfire there every day. I hear that's more dangerous than Iraq, which is, of course, ridiculous. You have different population sizes. The reality is that if you live in a working class black or Italian neighborhood in Chicago, there might be one or two murders a year, which is a very high murder rate for an area that size, but which means you have a one in 40,000 chance of being killed, right? Um, when I moved to Kentucky, ironically, all of my black buddies said, well, you're moving to Central Appalachia, isn't that one of the most dangerous areas in the country, and it's the exact same thing, whether you're going overseas independently, whether you think of joining the army, for that matter, although this is on kind of the more softer white collar level, you want to go to law school or medical school. The worst story you've ever heard about, it isn't going to be every day. It's just something to be aware of. You move to the south side, it might help you to have a pistol and a Rottweiler, but you're probably not going to use them at any rate and your experience, of course, much more intense but same principle. So I think it's good to say that all the time we encourage cowardice in this country to enable Incredible degree, people are scared to walk through civilian areas in the country. That's generally ridiculous. Anyway, um, as to the second point, yeah, I think culture obviously is the cause of most non genetic issues. And right now in the USA, I think we're in the midst of an interesting debate. That's a waste of time. And I say this debate occurs between two groups, Al Sharpton nights and Richard Jensen nights. So al sharpton nights are people that attribute all problems in the black community to racism, no matter what. No lo sa t scores. That's that racism. That's the white man's map. I'm Richard Dawkins. Tonight's This is a lot of the alt right, really reify iq and attribute almost everything to IQ higher rate of TV watching bats IQ. This often in my opinion almost approaches pseudoscience. I mean, there are writers that will try to take the R and K reproductive strategies used by fish and attribute them to humans to explain why poor people have more Kids. Yeah, I think there's a much simpler explanation than racism. And I think there's a much simpler explanation than genetics, whether or not there is some two and 3% group differences. And yeah, that's cultural. And I don't think you have to come up with a ton of variables to explain why blacks are working for whites or whatever do more poorly than, you know, Chinese immigrants. The most notable differences fatherlessness. So, I mean, in America right now, the quote unquote illegitimacy rate for the black community you might correct this by a pointer to I think it's 74% 70 74%. Get out of here. Wow. Okay, Google it. Well, I mean, it's not really like illegitimacy, right. I know. It's over 70. I know it's over 70. Wow. And by the way, whites aren't that far off. If you take all whites, including white Hispanics, I think it's 37%. On the only 2018 data I've seen so far, Hispanics, 56 natives, I know they're over 60. So when you look at why black communities or poor white communities have a lot of these issues. The most obvious answer is the absence of fathers. Yeah, I remember I was talking with a black buddy of mine, middle class black buddy, about literally in one of the neighborhoods we used to live in. And he said, Well, there's not a lot of little league, that kids don't play baseball. And I said, Why don't they play baseball, you know, don't play basketball, and they just pick up some bats. And he said, Well, with who? referring to the total absence of fathers uncles that were really in the scene, even big brothers that are out but are not in jail, for example, or at work. And that's a valid point. And that's why for American struggle, you can't get through a 74%. illegitimacy, right. So yeah, I think it's primarily cultural, almost entirely cultural. If you take a look at almost anything. Well, I'll simplify this into one sense. JOHN McWhorter, qualitative writer, but good one, he's on the black guys on blogging heads TV, and a book called losing the race. What said that there seemed to be four things that if you adjust for close the Black White IQ and crime death. Those were father in the home, number of hours of TV watched every day, the grades demanded by your parents, and the number of books in your house. And those are almost entirely cultural variables except for books. None of them has anything to do with IQ in the PhD sense. They're things that you can teach your kids, anyone can slap their kid on the head and say work harder in class. The question is Who does? Yeah, Asians?
Unknown Speaker 40:29
There's an answer like,
Pete Turner 40:30
well, and also, was it what country in Africa was just shocking in their standout nature of their genius levels? Nigeria, Nigeria. Yeah, I want to get into that in a second. One of the things I've I don't know if you're familiar with do the Judith rich Harris's book The nurture assumption, by the way they do. Have you heard about this.
Unknown Speaker 40:54
I'm very familiar with the nature nurture debate and also with the fact that although nurture does have an impact? It's not what is traditionally been thought. Its friend group, its public libraries. It's not really your parents as long as they don't abuse you. But I haven't read this particular book. No, it is,
Pete Turner 41:10
it is the book, it is the one that started what you just said all of that stuff where, yes, you can fuck your kid up. But if you think you can mold your kid into something that's repeatable, will then do what's in your own family group and do it for time to do for kids. And you'll instantly see the problem look big, you know, you love them, you care for them, but there are so many other factors by the time you wash all that stuff out that they no room left for Mom and Dad, you know, but you can abandon your kid, you can, you know, be so drug addled that they aren't raised properly, you can definitely fuck them up. When we put kids in that kind of an environment, you know, and and the cultural part is really left up to their own devices. There is no guide to kind of teach norms and mores and those kind of things. Are we? Are we post norm? You know, like all like all this stuff with the transgender? And all of these, you're trying to bring that part of the conversation because I know you talk a little bit about it. Are we so internally meta focused that we are losing touch with what is okay, day to day in society?
Unknown Speaker 42:22
No, I don't think so. I think that there's a tendency among both the rich and the poor to shit on the petite bourgeois. Uh huh. Um, I grew up in a poor neighborhood. I mean, East Aurora in the 1990s, you know, inner city, Chicago at that time. I mean, these were globally known violent areas, and people would mock mainstream suburbanites is basically prey. There's not any other way to describe it. They can't defend themselves. They're not good in bed, they can't dance. They're the things we hunt. And I've seen that same attitude among the rich. I've seen it interestingly also amongst soldiers describing civilians, but There's a sheepdog element to it as opposed to wolf. Yeah, it's like we've got to protect the poor useless Willies not like we'll just tear them apart. But I mean, I think there's a tendency to mock bourgeois norms like no, not in my mouth, among rich people and poor people. Yeah. And I think that right now, we're in the midst of a cultural climate where upper middle class predatory people are glorifying the behavior of lower middle class predatory people. But I think that in general norms do survive among most people, the marriage rate in the American middle class is still very high. And I also think that norms survive among the people on the left who are saying they shouldn't. This is one of those things that's absolutely stunning. If you look at the data, yeah, the percentage of people that go to the most left wing flamboyant schools, Berkeley Brown, that go on to get married to a reasonably stable heterosexual monogamous person is astonishingly high. It's over 90% every time I've seen the data breakdown I think that most people, most successful Americans understand that there are things completing high school, completing college, getting a job and working it until you get a career so and they're going to produce success. Um, I think that what you have is a weird kind of cultural cancer where people that know this are telling people that don't necessarily know it, that it's not true. And I think that's very problematic. I don't think that there are too many upper middle class brown graduates that are sending their three year old unsupervised to drag queen story hour, right. That's not a thing that occurs. But I do think that we have a less serious problem than what you described, but still a serious one, which is the promotion of total immorality by people that don't believe it. Right? This actually, like I tend to ramble. So last comment for me on this one, but I mean, I noticed that when I went to an urban public school, and I hadn't been sheltered, I mean, I knew how to fight and cook simple food and so on, but I hadn't really been exposed to the culture too much. My mom was God, my cousins are good. I was somewhat protected. When I first went to an urban public school, my one of my initial reactions I still remember was these people think it's cool to be evil. It was a very strong impression. Like people think it's cool to cheat on their girlfriend, people think it's cool to not act like they like their parents. People are acting like they're much more sexual and violent than they are. Why? Hmm, and I do think that that is reflective of the fact that what you teach people through a venue like primetime television impacts how they behave. So we do need to look at the content that content creators are creating. Why this?
Pete Turner 45:37
Yeah, interesting. Okay, let me and I want to I want to get away from the urban black violence thing here, but I do want to bring up this point cuz I was thinking about this while you were talking. The point before I got this project I'm working on called the prison Chronicles and it's coming out really soon. And basically, it asked this question if most murderers who are in prison get out of jail What condition Do you want them in when they walk out the door? And if I added a part B to this question, if I told you that they walk out with less than 1000, most likely 200 ish dollars, would you be stoked for their chances of being a contributing member of society Two years later, you know, like, this is this is the premise. And so we talked to a guy who was convicted of murder and spent a lot of time in jail. well over a third of it in solitary confinement. And he said, think about me and my family growing up in Detroit, we brought Detroit brilliance made me think of it. And the presence of PTSD. He talked about getting off the axe. Everyone he knew and his family had been shot, his brother had shot his other brother, he had been shot himself, everyone he knew had been shot, and most everyone if not everyone that was going to or had already been in the correctional facility. So if, if PTSD affects me because I'm in combat, and all this uncertainty and my cortisol pathways are all blown out, because I'm always going Dawn, how is that not true for a bunch of black dudes? And then if I get special, you know, consideration in court, even though we pay a higher price when we get convicted, if I go through a special veterans court because hey, this is a different case. Is that something that we need to account for it? You know, that there's the political scientists? And you say, yeah, you know, what, maybe? Or is there a different path to this? Because it sure seems like an inequity to me that, that someone can experience all that trauma, and we don't expect them to have, you know, significant problems making good choices and with anger.
Unknown Speaker 47:33
Well, I think that's an excellent question. I think there are different levels. First of all, I do think that being a combat soldier is something distinctive. I mean, I've had people shoot at me basically discharged guns at places where I was, and I don't think I have PTSD. I mean, my understanding of the literature on this is that there is shell shock is a real concept. There is certain sustained hyper high level violence, how it starts mortar on up shells coming at you for a consistent period of time that produces that always triggered effect. So I don't think that the average urban guy, the black or otherwise would necessarily qualify as having PTSD, then that's that's almost a personal sideline for me because I don't like the over diagnosis of mental ailments, okay? Um, if I went to a modern psychologist and just told the truth, I would almost certainly be diagnosed as a clinical sociopath with a DD OCD, mild PTSD and a bunch of other crap and I'd be given a bunch of zombie drugs for the rest of my life. Um, I think that this is bad. And I think it's true for most Americans. I don't think I'm crazy. Um, I think you for that matter. I'm not a doctor. But I've definitely had some legitimately traumatizing experiences, but you still seem extremely high functioning, whether or not medication might individually help someone with that. So no, I don't think every guy in the hood has PTSD. I do think that obviously, is there's the old line, never Do an enemy a small injury. Obviously, if we're not just going to kill people who commit serious crimes, which in many cases rape, I would not have a problem with. If we're not going to do that, then yeah, we need to give these guys after some brutal early years when they're locked up. The rest of that time needs to be spent rehabbing them so they can be functional citizens. And right now we're in kind of a gray area where we don't just have the hangman's noose anymore. We can have 100% success rate. But we also don't have sweetest style rehab programs. It's on jails, basically just Gladiator school. If you throw someone into anything but the best run prisons and virtually all the local county jails, they're going to be people trying to fight you people trying to buy or steal your food. people sitting on the bottom of the bunk shirtless playing cards. It's not going to be an environment that prepares you for anything beyond going back to jail. So yeah, just basic things like mandating that prisoners have to be paid $1 for every hour they work. For example, It's currently about 20 cents hmm mandating that they get paid a buck and half of that goes into savings would do an incredible amount of good for these guys. You get out with $14,000 not 200. Right? They don't even give you a suit anymore when you get out of prison. Okay, good. I went through a phase in my life where I took Amtrak trains across the country to see girls that I dated to see bodies to travel. And a lot of the people on the trains are people have just gotten out of prison, which is funny and it wasn't a threat to me, but it certainly like Mormon women and so on work too excited about it, but they give you a pair of cloth, thin gray sweat pants, they give you a white t shirt, they give you a surprisingly nice pair of Nikes and they put you on a bus, they give you enough money to get to your home destination. But they don't always give you two tickets. Sometimes you have to buy one at the bus stations. If you spend some of that money. You're just at the bus station. Like Yes, of course. You're doing that you are making it more difficult for people to succeed. Yeah.
Pete Turner 50:55
Yeah, it's a you know, it is that what we want as a society you know? No, it's it's hard question and a different show. Let's stay on the taboo topic. So let's talk a little bit more specifically about IQ. We've kind of kicked it around a little bit, but IQ tests the IQ gap, and you're saying that once you account for three ish deforest variables, that gap is reliably gone. And And what about the whole thought of anybody below saying 85 IQ is, you know, basically a functioning idiot? And I mean, the technical definition of idiot, not the put it down.
Unknown Speaker 51:30
I think there's a difference. I think there's a difference between IQ and tested IQ. Okay, so, first of all, I would analogize iq to physical fitness not to height. So growing up in the hood, I had a tested IQ of 108. When I went to an elite law school, I had a tested IQ of 167. Now my tested IQ is about 143. I'm still competitive, but it's not like you have I lost sections. See, study prep every day. I consider myself a geek in some way. ways but when I'm home, I watch ESPN or cook, I don't take IQ tests, oh, we're just something we did for practice in law school. So I mean, that that's notable, the, the gap between my lowest and highest IQ is 59 points, which is itself most of a human IQ. So again, when someone tests on a standard IQ board, unless you're doing the full culture fair five hours with the blocks, I think what you're looking at at a given time is how aware they are of functional post High School American culture, not really what their potential intelligence is. Someone wants told me, this was a buddy from I think, Indonesia, and he did very poorly at an American IQ test because their struggles with the language, but in his home country was about 140. What he told me was that you have to understand Tarzan or Mowgli, the legendary, you know, semi historical figures would have gotten a zero on one of these tests just because they didn't speak colloquial written English, right? So all that is the preset. That said, I think IQ testing is very useful. It says how well qualified you are for normal again, middle class life in a modern society, we're not going to stop using the tests. The essay T and the AC t are also almost pure IQ tests, you can almost put 100 in front of your AC t score and get something quite close to your IQ. So when you talk about the IQ gap, oh, that's probably more grad student mythology than anything else. But I'm sure there's a very close correlation between a B and an IQ 90% correlation between sa T and IQ I know. But anyway, what do you talk about the IQ gap right now there are IQ gaps between the major ethnic groups This is not controversial. If you look at the latest writing about this by the audacious fo God For example, who by the way is on the far almost dissident, right. Um, so this is not a leftist, arguing that we're doing extremely well. But the black IQ is risen to about 93 there's a Paper Dickens and Flan 2006. It breaks down exactly what the black eyed kids are for each age cohort. So we're let's say 9293. Whites are at 99. Asian seem to be at about 102 natives are a little under blacks. Hispanics are right around a little over blacks. So it is undisputed that these IQ gaps exist. The question is why they do. And the big thing on the alt right is the claim that this is purely genetic. I find that really, really unlikely. And a big part of that is that I'm a tom Stoll kind of center right business conservative. I've read all souls books and all the responses to him. And I mean, if you look at history, it's extremely common that IQ is for large populations jumped by 15 or 20 points. When you adjust for a simple variable like the one I just used fatherlessness. So in race and culture page 160. This isn't very controversial. So breaks down how different ethnic groups did on the army alpha basic tests that were used in World War One and World War Two and the civilian equivalents. And as I recall Italians, Irish men, Greeks, Slovenes, the Portuguese Serbs so on down the line got under an 85. All these groups tested at the same level as or below African Americans. Now all these groups test at the National normal all between 97 and 102. And blacks themselves have increased their IQ by eight to 10 points. So, to me, there's a winning culturalist argument for IQ. It's just obvious that if you go to third world countries in Eastern Europe or Africa, people aren't going to do as well in a math test as they will in Los Angeles. Um, as with a lot of other things, from height to penis size to running speed, there might be some three or 4% group differences. But obviously, the amount of time you spend with books really predicts how you're going to do on most tests. Again, the issue in black community is there's less of a focus on education generally there fewer father's on down the line. Black immigrants do very well. Of course.
Pete Turner 56:04
That's Yeah. See this where you think you have your hands wrapped around something, you get that thrown at you? Yeah. Just makes me rub my head. Black in black immigrants across the board. I mean, that's a big population. That's pretty diverse too. Does that include nikitos from Filipinos? You know, that kind of thing? Or?
Unknown Speaker 56:27
I think that that's a great question in terms of like, what are these words? Even me? Yes. If someone says black or Asian is Asians, the one that does this for me, Oh, my God says, Well, some Asians underperform whites and other Asians smoke everybody. The first response I have is, well, a lot of those Asians are different races. Yeah. How many talking about like black drive ins from India versus people from Japan? You know, Asia is a very big place, right? Yeah, it's the other half of the world except for Africa. So I mean, anyway, I'm large but No, by black I mean, I guess, more than 50% bond to or Ethiopia, Africa, like there really are definitions for the races. Okay, we really do know what East and West African Black people are. So the whole idea that race is a cultural construct is pretty silly. Yeah, if you took an actual Ethiopian or Nigerian Lord and told him he was white, he would laugh himself silly. It's, that's something that goes on in our academia, not in real life. But I mean, black immigrants in general. And we don't have a very selective immigration system by any means. So that this, that's not the reason for it. Whether you're talking about West Indians, Nigerians Ghanaians, they do extremely well. Nigerians are the group in the USA, most likely to have PhDs. And this holds true for their children. There's no quote unquote regression to the mean. So again, I think what we see is that if you take reasonably selected people good enough to get through a basic immigration process, and you maintain basically stable variables like a father, and you look at something like IQ scores or rates of criminal offense They're going to be very similar. That's my basic point on race. If someone took some technical issue and said, well, aren't whites better swimmers? they evolved near water. They hold all the swimming records, maybe. But I mean, if you look at broadly, who's going to make a varsity football team, it's going to be a pretty diverse range of guys. You know, and that, that's my general take on race. Yeah,
Pete Turner 58:21
I think when you get so let me ask you this question real quick to not not to pin you on something. But is IQ heritable?
Unknown Speaker 58:28
Yeah, of course. I mean, it's the so all of this is kind of, Okay, first of all, again, sorry, man, Tarzan. If you look at the mythological series of books, Tarzan, Russia's based to some extent on real humans raised by apes and wolves and so on. Tarzan, the character is Lord grey stroke from England. So I'm not saying Tarzan obviously is a real person is taking IQ test. Right. But if you took the gray stroke, Jim's that family average IQ probably hundred 25. That's typical for upper class and breadth Tarzan's would be zero because Tarzan was raised by apes. I think this Tarzan analogy is a good one I sometimes use in classes. So IQ is obviously not 100% heritable, right, of course, you find is that if you take people and raise them under what I believe was Jensen called any reasonable circumstances, I don't agree with some of his conclusions about race, but a good scholar in this field, under any reasonable circumstances IQ is about 60 to 70% heritable. That is, if my baseline IQ is 140, and you took me and you raised me in any situation from a peasant field to the rajas Palace in Jaipur, my IQ would be between point six of 140 and maybe like 1.05 of hundred 40. That's that's what IQ is. The response to that though, is that 40% is larger than any IQ gap that exists among humans today, right? I eat if you take an American white at 100 and an American black at 92. That's an 8% gap could an 8% gap be due to Cultural variables. Yeah, I would in fact predict that if you take just black people with fathers in the house, you've got an average IQ of about 97. That might be one of my next papers and hasn't been done as far as I can tell. So I mean, again, race Israel, it's just silly to say Kenyans aren't good distance runners or something like that, right? It's a little more complex than we tend to think. If you talk to an organization like 23, and may, it's not that there exists Caucasians, and then All Blacks and then Easterners or something, there are about 50 different fractal regional populations that combine into seven large ones, amaranth and so on down the line. But raise it that level is real. There probably are some small to moderate differences between racial groups. But I don't think that in the same society IQ seems to be one of them to a massive extent. If you look at Britain's data right now, that I mean, that's the violence but they're pretty race. The populations 10% black and Asian reasonably assimilated by our standards. I think their average IQ is as I recall for Asians, 102 people who are multiracial, white and black 99. I mean, so you just when you see these huge gaps between America and either Chechnya or Rwanda, you need to adjust to what's going on in Chechnya or Rwanda before you can really make a fair comparison. Yeah, IQ itself is heavily heritable. 60% Plus, yeah,
Pete Turner 1:01:24
at least like and talk about a taboo topic to set just to say that you know, and it's almost like you're bound to be in Flynn's camp or in Marie's camp and and in either way, you're a horrible evil asshole night, see, you know, Jew hater or whatever. No, I'm just trying to have an academic conversation about something that we struggle to nail down like that defining culture. Go ask 100 people and you get 300 definitions, you know. Let's get back into the race part of this then because you're bringing up some some fantastic points. I mean, Asia, there's people in Oman that are Asian. There are black dudes who will look you in the face and say I am white. Who are Asians in Turkey? You know, it's dude, race is crazy when people say all white people, you know, I know you and I've discussed this in the past but but what the fuck is white people? You know
wil reilly 1:02:21
what this again? Sorry, gone? No, no,
Pete Turner 1:02:24
I was just going to bring in how like, by the way, you know those those I'm gonna say Arabs because I'm not going to be too specific because that's the whole point. Arabs are white Jesus was white Jews and and a lot of Arabs you know at least the Middle Eastern Arabs that the same people you know racially so let's understand that what we understand about race colloquially colloquially is not all that crystal clear.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
This is one of the bit and I don't want to keep going back to debates I've had a couple of years ago. So in fact, I'll stop doing that and just make this one sentence. This is another big problem with kind of the dissident, right? Um, race is different from ethnicity one, and being white is different from being Caucasian to right. So from what I've learned from 23andme there are in addition to unassign, which just means highly mixed there about six human racial populations, one is European Caucasian, one is West Asian Caucasian, which is Arabs and such which is virtually identical. The European Caucasian, one is East Asian and Native American. One is but two black West African Black. Think Another one is North African and East African Black. That's a little different Somalia and so on. Um, and I honestly forget what the other one would be. I don't want to make it up. But anyway, there so there are specific racial populations. And you can find these just by googling 23andme Regional groups or 23 and me source groups. So in fact, I don't think most scholars are too confused as to what race is. I think most people could look at saying Afghan and say, Well, that's a West Asian, Caucasian. If they recognize race at all, there is some dispute around that because of past interbreeding. Um, I think that the issues that are in conflict come up when people start trying to create racial identities that don't match the real haha. The idea of white in America basically means Northern European, non Muslim cockade. Yeah, the problem with this is that there's no difference between northern European non Muslim Caucasians and Northern European Muslim Caucasians like Chechens, there's not much difference between northern European and Southern European, Caucasian, all of these groups and this is an estimate but vary by maybe two or 3% in terms of even those differences that do vary with rates. So I mean, in a sentence, if you are arguing for white supremacy, what you would have to show is that Caucasians overall, do better than kind of the other major serious racial groups like West African blacks or Asians. And that's a Very difficult to do, because the actual Caucasian group includes the Middle East. So it includes the most violent Arab and Persian countries, Iraq, Iran, Palestine, all those people are 100% genetically Caucasian, to the point where you said Jesus was white. And I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. I mean, it's all Caucasians, right? And that includes what I might literally think of is boron country. I mean, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, all that Tajikistan as some Asians, but all those countries, 90 plus percent hablo, typically Caucasian, Eastern Europe. So you're talking about Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, all those countries Caucasian. So if you look at all of the Caucasians, you don't necessarily see global stellar performance. You know, wonderful people, just as we all are, but no one's going to take a summer vacation in Palestine. Right. So you can't just separate the successful Caucasians economically, from the other Caucasians and say, Well, this is a different group. I mean, it'd be very easy for blacks to do the same thing. I mean, I could point to all tropical paradise is in the world. I mean, Bermuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Botswana, Brazil will give you it's about 50%, black, you know someone down the line and say, Well, these are, you know, St. Kitts and Nevis average income 40,000 per year, I could say, well, these are the real black people. Those people in Africa, those are negros. We don't claim them. There would be the same kind of meaningless statement as me saying, well, Germany is wonderful. So white power, all Someone has to says, What about Albania? hos, you know, so in general, some mild racial differences probably. Do we see massive gaps among people of different races in the same society? not usually, no. But I mean, one thing that's interesting about this also, you said whether you're in Marie's camp or Flynn's camp, you're going to be called a Nazi. And that's correct. Yeah. If you recognize that IQ exists at all, and modern science you're seeing is saying something very radical. So when I say there's an eight or nine point black white IQ gap, but come down that's cultural people will then very often attack me and say, Are you saying black culture is inadequate? You Uncle Tom monster. And at some point, you have to be able to say, look, it's good to have a dad. You know, it's not ideal that half of blacks are poor whites or whatever, don't have fathers 70% of us. That's not good. So I mean, but even that is becoming increasingly contested in the same way that the statement men are women is becoming increasingly contested. Yeah.
Pete Turner 1:07:27
Yeah, good grief, the gender thing. Is it possible that 10 years from now we're going to find out that gender is not simply tied to an X Y chromosome value and that there is a Batman I think there's there's doctors at Stanford that are working on this very thing and understanding, you know, what does create a gender identity goes beyond just that thing is that is that irrational to think that we're going to slide off of x, y, and that's it. I mean, because we already know there's x x x x x x, there's X X Y chromosome combinations. Granted, they're exceptionally rare, but those exist
Unknown Speaker 1:08:00
Think all those people are intersects I mean, it's very predictable. Like I can tell you what an x x y person would look like, right in terms of there be some feminine characteristics, but this is the primary like, those are intersex individuals, okay? I think in general they're two different things. One gender may well be a matter of personal self definition. Sex isn't okay. So it's very easy to define a female. As a person, I may not be exactly right about what a three x y would look like. I encourage people to look that up on their own, but it's very easy to define a female as a person with an all X chromosome will order let's say a non intersex person with an all X chromosome will order that's all the females that's removed all the non x x or x x plus Yeah, intersex person with an all X X chromosome order that in 99.9997% of cases manifest itself in a self lubricating vagina, lactating breast, I mean, you want to be PG here, but that's what a woman is. is similarly for a male, a person with an x y or x y Y chromosome will order that in 99% of cases manifests itself in a penis and external testicles. 100% of males have an extended hyoid bone, a newly occluded prostate. I mean, we're getting extremely wonky here, but we know what sex is. The question really, the question is, is there something called gender that's different from sex? Right? That's it. That is an interesting question. But even if you say yes, and I might say yes, that if you I've seen people in essentially drag outfits and unexpected situations I overseas or on the south side of Chicago, and it takes a while to process what sex they actually are, because of a variety of cultural cues. It's not hard in some societies, as you probably seen for women to imitate men in terms of dress. So is someone who has a brain more typical of the opposite sex, who is putting on the clothing and accoutrements of the opposite sex, who is homosexual? And who wants to be seen as a member of the opposite sex? Is it fair to say that their gender is a little different from their sex? I don't really have a huge problem with that, frankly. I mean, going back to Rome, they call this the feminist movement or the two sold movement, natives use that same term to spirit. Um, so I don't have a problem with that. The issue with that though, is that it doesn't change your sex at all. This has to be understood. So if you are fully transgender, I want to be seen as a woman you dress as a woman You look like a woman because of cultural cues. But you have a 10 inch penis. I'd be really question I really question you playing girls varsity sports? I mean, is that going to be the best thing if you decide you want to hook up in the locker room? Is that going to be the best thing for that matter out on the court? When you're dominating five for female small forwards? No, because biologically, you're a man. There's certain things that just kind of suck. If you have the mental condition of gender dysphoria, and you believe that You are and that's what transgenderism is it's a recognized mild mental illness. There's no dispute about this in science really, if you have this mental condition and you honorably believe yourself to be a woman, but you're a man, biologically, that's going to cause you a lot of problems, but we can't necessarily treat you by saying you're a biological woman.
Pete Turner 1:11:19
Yeah, and and the whole sports thing is Boy, that's just you know, it is I don't want men knocking out women, not not because of some kind of violence thing, but just, it's not an even fight. That's why we don't let you know 125 pound guys fight against 225 pound guys, there's, there's a difference in how they're built in their ability to apply force. Is there any other taboo you want to cover real quick? I mean, I know we've been through sort of a survey of a lot of them, but I want to make sure I give you a chance to expand on any of them that we haven't
Unknown Speaker 1:11:52
covered. Well, so we've talked about race and IQ. That's one of the chapters we've talked about. Black Lives Matter. That's one of the chapters I guess one of the other chapters that comes to my mind, there's one chapter where I say whiteness isn't the only privilege and cultural appropriation isn't even real. I think that's fairly important. Yeah, I'll try to grab my natural urge to babble. But essentially, if you take any competently done survey of privilege, you have 100 questions that go from, you know, do you know what frequent flyer miles are? Have you ever been beaten up by more than two people and you go down through all these items, summer job, if you administer that to people, you find that with everything else adjusted for whites do about three points better than blacks. So there is white privilege in the sense that if you take two identical guys, University of Michigan 2.8 GPA 510 and you send them out to apply for jobs, the white guy is going to do a little better. Um, but what you find if you look at something like this is that a ton of things matter way more than race, about 60% of privileges just social class. So how well off you and your parents are The huge majority predictor of how easier life is going to be. We find people that have done this, including me, although not yet in the final version of the survey, but people that have done this fine that being gay has more of a negative impact on your life than being black. being fat has more of a negative impact on your life than being a member of any race who's fit. So it is being extremely short for men birth order, I mean, so you can go through all this stuff. Basically, white privilege is a univariant idea. All you're saying is that whites have an advantage over blacks. That's true. Overall, on average, it's not true for most individuals. When you encounter a particular guy, you have no idea whether his father just died of cancer. So that's white privilege. cultural appropriation is just a dumb ass idea. Yeah, I don't see how anyone could take this seriously. The basic idea is just that you should not do things that were invented by a group you once oppressed or award with. But that's everything. Yeah, I mean, that would include us Westerners eating sushi. Japanese businessmen would have trade their suits in for komodos and swords. I mean, this sounds kind of ridiculous, but it is accurate the numerals we use, we borrowed from the Arabs, we fight the Arabs every five years. I mean, so the idea they would have to give up cars which Westerners invented, go back to ships of the desert. So the basic idea that you can't do something an enemy once did is ridiculous. That's kind of one of the closing lines that I plan to use from the book and interviews. But I've got all told about 10 of these chapters. One is that the alt right doesn't have much to offer either. A striking back at that graper hard right movement that's growing on the right. You know, I've got a chapter about immigration where the taboo is we don't have to take immigrants, we should take in only people that are saying non criminal, reasonably able bodied and healthy and able to pass basic IQ boards. That chapter got the most resistance from people that read it. So there are a few of them, but I would close with you can learn anything from anyone. Yeah, no cultural appropriation. Nobody white privilege.
Pete Turner 1:15:00
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that what you're talking about in terms of immigration and and I've been saying this for a while, not that I'm the smartest guy in the world, but if Congress has a problem with immigration that Congress has a congress problem, you know, this is, this is their job to fix. And I agree with you. I look, my, my favorite American is the next one. I want people to come here. I love it. They give up their homeland, and come here to be part of what we're doing. I think it's the best thing ever. I also don't mind having a wall and saying anybody who wants to come in, we'd like to know who you are. Make sure you're healthy. You know, maybe run a background check. And if you are a criminal, hey, let's figure out how to get you into a system so we can make sure you do well, you know, because I'll tell you what. JACK Barsky was an embedded agent from the KGB living in the Americas. The series Americans he advises on that thing, and he made so much money as a computer software guy. He's like fuck Being a spy. I want to be an American. So here's a guy that's supposed to know the guy that that opened up world war two for us with Japan, that guy ended up going, you know what, I don't hate America, I love I don't want to raise my kids there. So I'm all for that. But I also understand saying, let's understand who you are, what we're getting. And then also allowing us to say, you know what, no, thanks, you got to go somewhere else. And that's, that to me, is reasonable. It's not racist. I, you know, we, we want immigration, we're all about it. But you have to have some control. Nobody just lets anybody into their house. You know, it's crazy.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:41
That's exactly right. I mean, what we've seen in recent years by the right to some extent, but more often by the left is the redefinition of just common sense terms like races, right. I mean, in the current Democratic primary election, I've actually voted democrat more often than Republican in my life. But I mean, people are saying things that strike me as just crazy. Julio Castro at one point just said, Well, why don't we get rid of ss 3175? And if you look at that that's the law that makes the illegal immigration illegal. Makes it criminal. It would be a technical civil violation if we got rid of that. Right. So there's now an open argument. Why don't we just open the borders because we are such a bad racist country. We shouldn't keep anyone out. We need to change ourselves overnight. And I think that's a crazy idea. I mean, obviously, yes. nations have a right to regulate who enters the country. Without Borders. Technically speaking, you don't have a country. So yeah, we can decide who we want to have come in. We could put a total moratorium on immigration for 10 years. Yeah, that wouldn't be racist at all. It would black European communist cheese eaters. It would black our neighbors from south of the border and black people from the rising powers of Africa. It's a moratorium, could you do it all the time. So we can do whatever we want in terms of our immigration policy. And that's a point I make, there's no real need to listen to. The murmurings of a few fanatics as though they're gospel in any sense of that word. So, I mean, each chapter goes through one of these things. But yeah, I totally agree. We need to vet who we let in the house. We don't necessarily do a great job of that. I mean, it's a it's an inspiring story that the spy you're describing, deciding want to be an American, we probably should have a system that prevents spies from coming in and just spying for 20 years before they have a change of heart. Right.
Pete Turner 1:18:25
Yeah, and at least try to prevent that guy from doing it. And yeah, look, you've been we've been talking for over an hour, and it's just great. The book is fantastic. It's a talks about these taboo topics, and will is written just a hell of a book. And there's a few jokes in there along the way, which I appreciate it. And if it matters to you at all. I read it. I read a lot of books through the year. This was one of my favorites. It's a book I've always wanted to read. And I'm glad someone finally had the courage to write it. I think it's exact. I think it's great critique that people are breaking Their brains on the immigration portion, it means you're doing exactly what you set out to do. You're bringing the taboo topic in. And again you unseated me in I don't know a couple of dozen times from my god damn it, I don't know shit about shit, you know, and now I gotta reassess who I am and look, I always say all the time to intolerance is a human very like a natural thing. We're just intolerant as a norm and then the evolved person goes Hold on, you know, I need to actually create space for this doesn't mean that I like child molesters, but they exist and and we got to deal with them. You can't just say I don't tolerate them. Well, good, that doesn't do anything. You know, you have to deal with these things and have an evolved position. So anyhow, all that yammering on I just want to thank you, man for writing that book. I know it's it's not easy, and I'm sure you enjoyed it. But we need more books like this. We need to have more of these conversations so we can all calm the fuck down. act locally, you know you want to change the whole goddamn governor From the top, why don't you just go get involved volunteer on that committee that has open seats and has every committee I know and small government hasn't at large thing because they want you to participate. And that chair was always empty. So go get fucking involved. If you want to change something, read wills book, you will learn something and you will enjoy it. Well, any last words?
Unknown Speaker 1:20:19
I'm noting No, not well, actually, I guess one of the things you just said about local politics is something I always say. People ask me, What can I do to get involved in terms of these ideas? Same center right. Often political principles, the local level run for alderman man. Yeah, I mean, it's extremely easy to get involved in this is actually a problem in America, we've seen the collapse of that social fabric, where most people used to play a varsity sport for their high school, then join the army, come home, go to church, join the Elks club run for office. Now people do none of those things would become isolated consumers. This doesn't have anything to do with race or class or whatever. It's something anyone can fix on their own. It's a huge problem. So if you don't like the society, run for office and change it Yeah,
Pete Turner 1:21:00
yeah. Oh, this goes back to Kennedy. And it's hilarious that the left is so guilty of this now, but they're all asking what their country can do for them. And and you know, here's the icon saying that's wrong, you know, we've got to be and if you don't like what's going on, get it get to work and guess what? That's it's hard. It's sucks. And you have to cooperate with your neighbor who you don't know. And they disagree with you vehemently. But you have to do it. If you want to make a difference than y'all all of a sudden you understand how hard it is to nudge the dial a little bit. Anyhow, I'm going to keep on yakking. Thanks so much for coming on, man. Half a happy holiday and really seriously, thank you so much.
wil reilly 1:21:36
Always good talking to you, man. Have a good day. Peace
Joel Manzer 2:40
Lions rock productions.
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This is JayMohr and
unknown 2:46
this is Jordan. Dexter from the Navy Sebastian youngsters, Rick maronna. Stewart Copeland is Andy
Summers discuss Baxter. Gabby Reese is Rob bell.
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This is Jon Leon Guerrero
Pete Turner 2:57
and this is Pete a Turner
wil reilly 3:01
Hey, how are you? This is Dr. Will Riley, you're listening to the break it down show with Pete Turner.
Pete Turner 3:08
Yes, will Riley is fascinating he look, he wrote a book called taboo, I was proud to write a blurb for it. And it's one of those books that it unseats you from your beliefs in a way that is not very fun. I guess I'll let you introduce the book will because it's a I've been waiting for someone to write this. If I was to write a book, that would not be the first book I picked. I'm so stoked that you did because this this message needed to get out there.
Unknown Speaker 3:37
Yeah. So in terms of the book first I was going to open by saying Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Already and I want to be original for you. P thank you for that. That's a you know, neither here nor there. In terms of the book, taboo taboo, as the name indicates, is a book that looks at kind of the things that you're not supposed to discuss in society, though. There are few of these I mean, the first chapter looks at the claims of the Black Lives Matter movement, that we've got a near race war going on in the United States. thousands, or at least hundreds of unarmed black men are killed annually by Leos. By law enforcement officers. What I find is that there's really no element of truth to that. In a typical year, the number of unarmed black men shot specifically by white cops is about 15. Sometimes 20 70% of the individuals shot by law enforcement officers happened to be Caucasian whites are Hispanics, the group's most likely to be shot by police or poor whites or recent legal immigrants. So I unpack this and then and I think I might make this part a separate book. At some point. I go through about five of the Black Lives Matter cases and look at what actually happened in the Alton Sterling situation, for example, where the guy happened to be an accused sex offender. The police had arrived because of a report of him brandishing a gun. It's a What else physical fight between him and the police. As I recall this when the gun falls off his belt, unfortunately, he gets shot. That was a fairly typical case. So chapter one looks at Black Lives Matter. Chapter Two looks at the claim that there is epidemic interracial crime in the USA, especially from whites in general. So I break down the actual figures on interracial violence. And one of the things I generally say about this is the person most likely to kill you as your ex husband or ex wife. That's still the case. In terms of interracial crime, even against whites, black people make up 13.7% of the country commit 15.3% of the violent crimes against whites, there's no war. But on the other end of the dial, this is even more notable in reverse whites commit about 11% of all crimes against blacks, maximum white criminals choose black victims about 3% of the time. So I'm kind of being wonky with the numbers here but this is presented in an interesting fashion and the point is just this is not happening, especially from the white side. There's a chapter on race and IQ. There's a chapter on problems with the All right, there's a chapter on cultural appropriation of white privilege. Two things I don't really think exist. I mean, cultural appropriation would require me to take off my suit jacket from Britain and not go to a Japanese restaurant with my girlfriend tonight, if we were going to we're going to take this seriously. Um, so it's just all of the things that you're kind of not supposed to say and modern, quote unquote, upper middle class discourse that I kind of run through and I asked, Is this true? A very few of them I find some support for but most No, no epidemic of interracial crime don't find much evidence of white privilege. The cops aren't out there just murdering men. So on down the line, one chapter I want to squeeze in there as we go into final edits is essentially can men be women? You know, you have the the trans movement, very active right now. And the claim is that gender is just sort of a social construct. I think there's a lot of evidence that it's not that if you took me or paid and you let us work out for a couple weeks and put us in a ball gown, we would not necessarily be able on par with women when it comes to aggression, verbal IQ, a whole bunch of other things. But anyway, so that's taboo, all this stuff you're not supposed to say, Hey, this
Pete Turner 7:08
is Pete a Turner from the break it down Show checking in real quick to ask you this, john Scott and I all support, save the brave with our time, our location, our effort and our money. Each month, we give a small amount. Do the same with us go to save the brave.org click on the donate tab, pick an amount that you want to come out each month and they will handle all the rest. I stand behind these folks. Thank you so much. Let's get back to the show.
Unknown Speaker 7:32
But anyway, so that's taboo, all this stuff you're not supposed to say.
Pete Turner 7:35
Yeah, so if things and all these topics, you have your own established belief, and maybe it moves a little bit, but I would say this is obviously just a guess. But once you sort of get set in your mindset of where the race violence is, you're not moving very far. You know, it's unlikely that you're going to move, I don't know 30 degrees left or right on the topic because It's just it's hard to challenge your own belief on these things and everything. So question but but you're really grabbing actual numbers on. I remember when we were doing stuff with the advanced feat, the advanced piece, folks, it's a bogans program basically he case manages the most violent people in a town like Sacramento or Richmond. And he just he works them. This gives them someone who believes in them and they get them to stop being, by and large stop being violent criminals. And then that was right around the time the Black Lives things matter. But what is it? I guess my question to you is this. If you go into a store and you robbed somebody, you've committed a crime. Okay, external social things aside, you can't go rob people. And then if you go, and you reach into a car and you grab after a cop's gun, it's just a file home. You're trying to attack a cop and go after his gun. This is a life I've been I'm a combat guy. So you know, I always think like, that's a lifetime. death struggle. And you know, I don't know when you're going to stop, so you're going to get shot?
Unknown Speaker 9:07
Well, I have a lot of respect for police officers for that reason, because they're in kind of that gray zone between that combat soldier and the tough civilian. Yeah. I mean, I've talked about these exact situations. I mean, you're describing Michael Brown specifically, right? I go to the gun range once or twice a week just to keep my skills up. And I mean, we've had this conversation. I mean, what would you do if you're an Officer Darren Wilson situation and everyone there is it happened we had this conversation with either just a tough regular guy, and tough in quotes, but a good night, man, a shooter, or someone who was say, National Guardsmen, a former Marine, something like that. There are no cops that and everyone to a man said I would just shoot it. Yeah, if someone reached into my car, and they were attempting to grab my firearm, and they had their hand on the front of my chest and I didn't know this person, I would just shoot them. Yeah, there was no dissenting voice. What made that so difficult in the case of a police officer, I think is the You are trained to such an extent that you're not a member of an occupying army and you're also not just some guy in a fight with another guy who can do if necessary to defend your wife right yours to go through it's essentially like Ouro he for combat engagements but every step but the last is non lethal, you know attempt to engage in conversation attempt to disengage attempt to bring in backup units attempt to use the non lethal. So yeah, cops have a tough job. Um, and what we found when we looked at the Black Lives Matter cases myself and Jane Lingle, my saintly research associate is that most of them fell into this kind of unsympathetic zone. By that I mean, it's not that the cops never made any mistakes. In the case of Freddie Gray, for example, one allegation was that they gave him a quote unquote rough ride, ie there'd been a tough pursuit when the police had encountered Mr. Grade runaway. There'd been a bit of a scuffle when he was captured. They were probably at angry. So they put them in the back of a police van, allegedly, and kind of drove around roughly for a while. And that and a pre existing injury might have contributed to the spinal injury that he suffered. So no one is saying that the police behave perfectly and all these situations but what you almost never find is a black man or a white man for that matter being unprovoked at least slaughtered on the way to church. Pretty much every case was what you're describing. There's some kind of altercation between the guy and the officers. Weapons are usually drawn and the police respond with violence, and there's much much more scrutiny on that violence than there would be if you are I did it, or if someone did it in a combat zone overseas that that really just can't be denied. But just one quick comment then I want to engage your responses but I mean, the Alton Sterling case keep sticking in mind. So I mean, Alton Sterling is one of those guys, this throughout the South. was kind of the the Trayvon Martin the Michael Brown. This was a Louisiana man who's often described as having been gunned down in broad daylight by the police. And if you actually look through that case, which I do for about five pages of taboo, what happened was that a local shopkeeper called the police and reported a man brandishing a gun in the street. Um, and the guy wasn't just out there, he happened to be running a bootleg CD business. So he had accounts very, but either books full of hundreds of bootleg movies and CDs or an actual stand for these illegal product, right. So the cops show up. And they find this bootlegger, and if they run his name through any kind of dashboard computer, I don't know exactly whether they did or not. They would have also found that he was a convicted pedophile. He'd been convicted on at least one occasion of sexual knowledge of a minor child. I'm pretty easy to find. I found that in about 10 minutes. I can't imagine the police didn't. So you're approaching this guy who you know has these pretty disturbing convictions who's got a gun on him. a scuffle breaks out. Sterling apparently reaches for the gun and he shot and the presentation for this in sort of the Black Lives Matter ecosphere was another innocent brother kill. I think virtually everyone who's familiar with the case whether or not you think the cops made some mistakes by not saying freeze, Drop your weapon, whatever, understands why that happened. And that's most of the cases not perfect police behavior but not Boy Scouts either.
Pete Turner 13:33
Yeah, I've writing down notes so that I don't lose track of some of the things I want to ask you about because this stuff is is tricky. First off, let's openly acknowledge and we've had Fred Leland on the show number of times we talked about this. We always as a default, as a society, we seem to say well, they just need more training. But the reality will is this. The person in charge of training at fill in the blank police station doesn't Like, what am I going to do with all this extra surplus time and money that I have? I just, I just can't give out enough of this training. We know that that's not true. You know, there's, there's actually and then here's the, here's how long the line is, are people saying I would like to spend twice as much of my police force to ensure that we have a higher level of training, because, you know, a third of our police force will have to be in training at all times, developing capacity, maintaining capacity and searching for new capacity, you know, like, nobody's in that line. So sort of, like Sergeant Major always says, it got what you got these your cops, and some are going to be shitheads. And some are going to be officer, you know, nice guy, and they're going to be great. But to expect something significantly more for the cost. We're already paying. It didn't happen in brother.
Unknown Speaker 14:50
Yeah, I'd say that. It's it's mostly correct. I mean, also, obviously, I think, Pete, I think you and I can agree that you never want an innocent person to die or these sort of cliches. we'd all like to live forever. Everyone's grandmother deserves a beautiful flower garden. I'm not attempting to make fun of anything here. But there is an idea of an ideal society that most people have. Yeah, but I mean, in real life, the reality is that utopia is literally the Latin word for no place. That's right. You generally do have, as you said, what you have. And it's striking how free how rarely, extreme police violence happens. In all honesty, yes. I mean, if you go to a resource and this isn't me, as you know, travie center right political pundits saying this if you go to w w w dot killed by police.net, or you go to the Washington Post, the counted project, there's a list of everyone who dies in confrontation with the police in a typical year. And what you'll find is I mean, you said there are 15 million to 20 million individual police patrols a year. Imagine each one of those involves four to six stops. So out of that hundred million data set of cases there are about 1000 police shoot In a typical year, yeah, I'm the number in let's say, the representative year of 2015. that involve African Americans at all was 258. Yeah, I mean, so we're about we're usually about 25 to 30%. Right. And that that reflects crime rate. There is a slightly but very definitely higher rate of crime in the black community, Matt stratospheric anymore, but it would make sense that if we're 14% of the country were 30% of the police encounters. You take that group of 258, you find that less than 100 people, I think this is all races actually were shot while they were unarmed. About 17 of those are going to be white cops shooting black men specifically. So I mean, this isn't something that happens a great deal. I mean, if you're going to talk about problems in the police sphere, police officers are shot far more often than police officers shoot unarmed black men, right. So one of the harsh realities of leadership is that sometimes you have to say that's an acceptable level of risk. The typical police department in a typical year is going to have zero shootings of black males by officers. And it's going to have zero shootings or officers by black males. I'm in the Kentucky State Capitol, which has no shortage of white and black males that will fight. Yeah. And I mean, we have had none of either for I could be wrong by the six year period seven year period. So to some extent, I mean, you're not going to double your entire police forces training budget to stop something that happens once every eight years. Yeah, that's correct. I mean, so the entire idea that this was a national problem was a spontaneously generated, if you will idea of specific activist movement, Black Lives Matter. Grew up in response to a number of cases and I think the leaders of that movement, if you look at Shaun King or DeRay McKesson were smart guys who saw some potential there. There is I often say the demand for bigotry exceeds the supply There's a great demand for racial conflict to justify these massive programs, affirmative action and so forth. And there's not that much. So police violence seemed like new fertile ground. We're not saying it's ordinary white citizens fighting us anymore. Now it's the cops. But again, when people like you and I unpack that we find no, it's not there. The number of people that found this category each year is 18. More people are killed by bees, wasps and Hornets.
Pete Turner 18:24
Yeah. And I want to I want to take that point you made about utopia or utopia, and and amplify it. This is a little bit old. But the guy the guy who tells the story in the story that Thomas Moore and Erasmus are telling the guy who tells the stories, that guy named hoffa day it is his name literally means the purveyor of nonsense. So like, Yeah, it's great. It's so you have this purveyor of nonsense talking about this perfect place because it's all this sort of this wrapped up thing. And so when people say utopia, I love it because look fall victim to this too. They don't know enough about what they're talking about even know what they're talking about, you know, it's It doesn't work that way up, I want to ask you this. And in part because you're you're the black guy in this conversation. And I never can get a straight answer from someone from the black community on the record. So maybe you if you don't have to look, I'm not trying to put you in a spot. And I don't think it's a hard question. But I do want to soften your requirement is their responsibility culturally within the black community to learn how to engage a police officer in a positive way I get that the system is negative and the perceptions are such that it's very hard to do that. But I got pulled over twice in the last, let's say five months, one time driving over 90 miles an hour in Georgia, which apparently is barely against the law. But you know, I had my hands high on the wheel. I didn't fish around for anything. I sat still at a time I was gonna, I'm a combat guy. I want to know where people's hands are. And so I said, I'm going to go to my You know, my wallet which is in my pocket? Do you mind if I grab that? And the guys like, Yeah, I don't, you know, and I, I am so concerned about their concern for their safety, that, you know, I will let them grab my wallet. I don't want to get shot. You know, that was not the case. When I talked to black dudes, you know, they have a much more combative look. And I, I don't particularly care to have my freedom challenged by a police officer. I don't trust in general police officers. I know great police officers that I love. But I don't know who's walking up to that thing. And they're the one entity that can strip your freedom, freedom in an instant on based on their judgment. So I definitely don't like that. But I also respect the fact that they want to go home alive.
Unknown Speaker 20:43
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, the short answer, I'll just answer the question. Yeah, I think obviously, that as any adult citizen, especially an adult male, you have a duty to learn how to do basic things when it comes to engaging violence and So like, and I don't I guess the reason I hesitated I don't necessarily think this is just a black thing.
Pete Turner 21:05
Okay. Agreed. Agreed?
Unknown Speaker 21:07
Yeah, I think we focused because of where these activists chose to go. I think we focus more on confrontations with black men. Again, the people most likely to get shot seem to be recent immigrants, poor whites, if you look at where police shootings are concentrated, and I would imagine that quote unquote, hillbillies that term this disliked around here, recent immigrants from Mexico or Italy have a lot of the same issues that African Americans might. But I mean, for all those groups. When I was in Chicago, I was a teacher in the City Colleges for a while, which is interesting if you want an in city urban teaching experience, Malcolm X and Harry Truman and all these schools, and I know that we offered courses on how to interact with the police and the justice system. I taught primarily at Truman but I would imagine these were at every one of the colleges. And it was basic stuff like don't show up to court in a white t shirt and sweatpants. Yeah. Same thing with police. And I mean, I didn't sit, in fact a ton almost entirely a trimmer when it comes to this sector anyway, that's that's not really relevant entirely. But Sorry, just thinking about my teaching experience, that's totally irrelevant. Anyway, basically, we did the same thing when it came to interactions with the police. And if you ever sat in on part of one of these classes, it's entertaining stuff, to some extent Chris Rock as a routine about this. But if you ask the typical urban young guy, whether that's African American, Irish, Italian, Hispanic, whatever, how would you respond if a police officer comes to your window and you've been stopped for you think you've been stopped for no reason? The response initially is always something like I would ask them why the that was stopping me for no reason whatsoever. I mean, I've had enough of these punk ass police, and it's just sort of you would instruct people like No, that's not what you would say, you know, Mr. Jenkins or Mr. mcgillicuddy. Even if you feel that you've been harassed to some slight extent, I mean, what you would say is How can I help you? Do you need to see license and registration? So yeah, I think that it is definitely very helpful. And this is something that high schools or junior colleges should cover to teach people how to interact with the police. And I have no doubt that when you get into young males and working class environments, and that certainly includes African American, you're going to have a lot more dislike for or hostility toward the police than you would have on average. Right. So I don't think police are saints, but I don't think ordinary citizens are saying cyber, the more polite and logical you are when you're encountering some police duty patrol Sergeant who's doing a 12 hour shift, the more likely both of you guys are to leave happy and with everything intact. So yeah, I think that needs to be emphasized. I don't think anyone would even deny in normal conversation rather than in the politically correct world. That working class African American men are more likely to be rude to the police. So yeah, the nicer you are to the police within reason you're not gonna let them give you a beating. But I mean, the nicer you are to the person least within reason the less likely you are to get in trouble
Pete Turner 24:02
yeah I got pulled over twice and and you know, middle aged white man who's visible aside both times going a lot faster than I was supposed to be going you know because that's just happens this la we drive fast around here another time that I get a ticket but that's partly because I said you know what I was going too fast I'm sorry. One time I was in a rental car and I was like I was just driving with the flow of traffic and he's like yeah, I know everybody goes fast and they let me go maybe I caught a benefit because more mostly because of my middle age you know kind of the old man nature but for sure by respecting the fact that they want to go humble live I definitely always attribute that to anytime I deal with police and and having them be a little bit you know, more square with me. But let me ask you this to again, black community if we are really worried about young black men getting shot you come from Chicago, you just talked about teaching there. Doesn't it behoove us as a society to focus on You know, it's black men shooting black men. It's Mexican shooting black man. It's people of color. It's young men of color. They're the ones who predominantly are dying from gunshot wounds. I've looked at the data, if you are, if you are a female or a person who's Asian or white and so and I'm using the big term Asian, not just, you know, the Far East, folks. They're not shooting each other. It's it's Native Americans, Hispanic dudes, black dudes that are shooting each other if we actually give a fuck at all, are we? Are we bound to at least deal with the bigger problem will or is I mean, you're a poor political scientist. Isn't that where the effort is? If we actually give a fuck? Isn't that where we're supposed to put our effort?
wil reilly 25:46
Yeah, there's a lot there. Um, I'm going to take some notes here, telling Irish 85% crime today
Unknown Speaker 25:58
and then 25 So first of all, I mean, I think that and this I don't think you're saying this, but I do think it's important to recognize that the contemporary level of violence among black and Hispanic men is an artifact of our era. To some extent, I don't think that's a racial or genetic or anything along those lines, right. It's not genetic, for sure. Right. Yeah. I haven't gotten I had a conversation recently with a guy who was kind of all light politically and who was asking, Well, can you imagine what Chicago would be like, if it was all white? There'd be almost no crime. And I'm kind of a connoisseur of Chicago history. And I said, well, the last time Chicago was all my, it was run by Al Capone's boys became Ballantine's day was the mob is tough. Yeah, Valentine's Day wasn't all that romantic those days. But I mean, it was you had the mob, the Irish mob up north, the boil crew. Can I jump in for
Pete Turner 26:48
a second on you and say it because I love this. This is great. Over at Union Station, the big station downtown Union Station, you can put your finger in the holes of the columns. where there were gunfights and then you can see the splash marks where they've patched them and they just didn't pack bucket. There's too many bullets. You know, those shots. Those are 45 those things probably came out of a tommy gun, you know, during some kind of crazy ass
Unknown Speaker 27:14
firefight at the train station. Yeah, a lot of those mob guys were World War One veterans. Yeah, they knew how to use the Thompson machine gun. The tommy gun would Yeah, I think that shoots that's a machine gun that shoots a 45 slug. I mean, that's a hell of a weapon. Yeah, that's what gangster movies that has the drum on it. Right? So I mean, the crime rate for Italian and Irish American males through 1950 was probably pretty similar. I'd have to go city by city I know Chicago's right, but to the crime rate for black and Hispanic males today. So that's not excusing the violence. It's now a problem in my community that we need to solve. But that's just a note. If you can't stack for people who drink you know, if you have a large urban vertical slums, you're going to have a crime problem. Yeah. And if you brilliantly put those near downtown to provide as access to jobs you're gonna have a Chicago level crime problem or Detroit level crime problem. Anyway, so but that that is the history Italians Irishman so I did this in the past. But yeah, today, there's no secret about where gunfire is primarily concentrated. And I think there is an attempt on the political left to disguise this to a pretty ridiculous degree. If you look at these statistics on gun violence from say every town USA, what they always say is that there are 30,000 gun deaths a year. What they neglect to mention is that 19,000 of those are individual suicide, right? You don't want those to happen, of course, but in my opinion, some of those are almost reasonably honorable. There are people with unpayable debts, there are people trying to leave an inheritance to our family. They're people that have failed in their profession. That to me is their business. I'll say that openly. Yeah, so you've got 11,000 gun murders of those 82% if you talk to any competent Elio source, our gang related murders Those are black and Hispanic males. So the number of citizens that actually kill other citizens and a gunfight is miniscule. If you look at the number of murders of, say, middle class white women, if you look at the FBI data, and then you try to break that down by the economic status of different regions of the country that's literally in the hundreds, not the thousands. So 82% of the gun murders that do exist are to some extent, gangbangers killing each other. And the gang scene in the USA Today is about 80 to 90%, black and Latino, Hispanic. So this is actually very important. This is this should have been one of the taboos. If you look at the actual data on crime, you see that the conversation we're having on crime is almost irrelevant. This is point I guess, point one is so not genetic. Point two is actual data on crime completely challenges, the contemporary upper middle class conversation that we're having. So we talked a lot about mass shooting. I'm using any real definition of a mass shooting, right like more than three people killed by a somewhat accurate shooter. There are about nine mass shootings in a typical year, right? If you go beyond mass shootings to semi automatic weapons, because as you know, most of the audience probably knows automatic weapons are basically illegal the United States. If you go beyond mass shootings, to semi automatic assault rifles, rifles all in kill about 485 people in a typical year, that's less than knives less than fists, most gun violence. 80% of gun violence is gangbangers shooting each other with cheap hand guns that can be easily purchased. So the question is, how do you stop that? But talking about it requires getting into this taboo space where we say okay, 54% of the murders involve black nudes, not even Hispanics, Italian Americans, whatever they involve young black men. There are other concentrations of death. Whites dramatically lead when it comes to suicide. But if we're focused on murder, how do we solve that problem in the black community, black community, black community, and people are very reluctant to have that conversation. Right.
Pete Turner 31:07
Yeah, I mean, and that's kind of why I was asking you because I knew you would be able to, to talk about it in a way that makes a lot more sense
Unknown Speaker 31:13
if you're actually asking for a solution. Okay, I think we opened with one. Um, one thing that's very important to remember about crime is that crime is not committed by men, or for that matter by poor whites or blacks or something like that. Those are massive groups, right crime is committed by a small number of individual criminals. And we started this program by talking about someone you know, a casual friend actually has a program where at a mid sized city like Sacramento, they identified the top 25 criminal offenders or possible criminal offenders during a period where they don't have to pursue them, say a period of probation. And they do something like offer them a job, possibly in the security field, and that dramatically reduces crime. I think that's a solution to this almost everywhere. To some extent, even in a city as big as Chicago, I would bet that if you identified the top 1000 young male fighters, which might be 600 African American men, 200 ethnic white men, 200 Hispanic men, and you were able to offer those guys something like whether it's a forced military career allowed the Foreign Legion, whether that would have caused some problems with the military, whether that is Civilian Conservation Corps type real work, whether that's something in the security field, if you took those thousand guys off the streets, theoretically, the same thing would happen if you just killed them, but I don't recommend that dramatic drop in crime. You'd see crime dropped by 40 to 50%. From the reviews I've read a bit. So that is the solution to some extent, you identify where crime actually is happening. And an incredibly disproportionate percentage of Blue Collar Crime happens among white poor white and black men under 30 lower class in urban areas. You can predict who's very likely to commit crimes. If you identify those people and offer them something else, you get less crime. The question is how to do that. both left and right oppose that, by the way.
Pete Turner 33:08
Hey, this is Pete a Turner from lions rock productions, we create podcasts around here. And if you your brand or your company want to figure out how to do a podcast, just talk to me. I'll give you the advice on the right gear. The best plan is show you how to take a podcast that makes sense for you that's sustainable, that scalable and fun. Hit me up at Pete at breakdown show. com Let me help. I want to hear about it.
wil reilly 33:32
both left and right, oppose that, by the way.
Pete Turner 33:34
Yeah. Well, you know, we don't want to actually solve problems.
Unknown Speaker 33:38
So there's probably a horrible truth to that if you're talking about, you know, the no term limits. Aaron Congress. My God.
Pete Turner 33:44
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know that term limits would solve it either. Then you'd have a bunch of people scrambling trying to get their job on case it didn't. We talked about this last time. If we eliminated K Street there just be a j Street. Anyhow, the other thing that's interesting about that This and you talked a number of times in the book and, and seriously so the book is called taboo. And by the time this show comes out, it should be out. And it's fantastic. It will make you think it will make you go cat dang it. I'm wrong again, like a lot. And I pride myself on knowing a lot about social issues and will kept just nailing me with facts actual facts from an actual PhD who has an actual license to to tell me these things. Thanks, man. Yeah, no problem. So, so if not DNA, and I am going to put you on the spot a little bit because we're using a definition that I'm proposing, but it's an academic one, then its culture, right? Anything not defined by DNA is culture. Yeah, culture is hard to hard wrap your hands around, but that we use that definition, how much of this stuff all of it, then let me back up and say this to my time of combat zones has informed me that the specter is always significantly worse than the actual thing itself. Oh, my gosh, that is JSON body. They're going to get me everywhere. In reality, they're barely operating in that area at all. Could they come get you? Yes. On this one corner in this giant city of a million people, you know, is it going to be the end of your life? Yes. But for 999,999 other people, it's not. And it's just a, it's a place where you can go get Dim Sum if you feel like it, or Ethiopian, you know, you have all these options. So, at what point is this a cultural problem, which makes it a super wiggly multivariate, no reliable path out kind of problem.
Unknown Speaker 35:34
So there are two things there. First of all, I've never experienced military level combat situation. But I like that point that nothing is as bad as you imagine it is. I found that to be very true. Just living my own life, whether that's traveling to the developing world, or just living in a lot of the places I've lived in. Yeah, because I'm not really a gated community sort of dude. I mean, I've lived in the hood a bunch of times because a dog and a gun are cheap as versus a McMansion. And I mean, living on Chicago, for example, you frequently hear comments like the south side, isn't there gunfire there every day. I hear that's more dangerous than Iraq, which is, of course, ridiculous. You have different population sizes. The reality is that if you live in a working class black or Italian neighborhood in Chicago, there might be one or two murders a year, which is a very high murder rate for an area that size, but which means you have a one in 40,000 chance of being killed, right? Um, when I moved to Kentucky, ironically, all of my black buddies said, well, you're moving to Central Appalachia, isn't that one of the most dangerous areas in the country, and it's the exact same thing, whether you're going overseas independently, whether you think of joining the army, for that matter, although this is on kind of the more softer white collar level, you want to go to law school or medical school. The worst story you've ever heard about, it isn't going to be every day. It's just something to be aware of. You move to the south side, it might help you to have a pistol and a Rottweiler, but you're probably not going to use them at any rate and your experience, of course, much more intense but same principle. So I think it's good to say that all the time we encourage cowardice in this country to enable Incredible degree, people are scared to walk through civilian areas in the country. That's generally ridiculous. Anyway, um, as to the second point, yeah, I think culture obviously is the cause of most non genetic issues. And right now in the USA, I think we're in the midst of an interesting debate. That's a waste of time. And I say this debate occurs between two groups, Al Sharpton nights and Richard Jensen nights. So al sharpton nights are people that attribute all problems in the black community to racism, no matter what. No lo sa t scores. That's that racism. That's the white man's map. I'm Richard Dawkins. Tonight's This is a lot of the alt right, really reify iq and attribute almost everything to IQ higher rate of TV watching bats IQ. This often in my opinion almost approaches pseudoscience. I mean, there are writers that will try to take the R and K reproductive strategies used by fish and attribute them to humans to explain why poor people have more Kids. Yeah, I think there's a much simpler explanation than racism. And I think there's a much simpler explanation than genetics, whether or not there is some two and 3% group differences. And yeah, that's cultural. And I don't think you have to come up with a ton of variables to explain why blacks are working for whites or whatever do more poorly than, you know, Chinese immigrants. The most notable differences fatherlessness. So, I mean, in America right now, the quote unquote illegitimacy rate for the black community you might correct this by a pointer to I think it's 74% 70 74%. Get out of here. Wow. Okay, Google it. Well, I mean, it's not really like illegitimacy, right. I know. It's over 70. I know it's over 70. Wow. And by the way, whites aren't that far off. If you take all whites, including white Hispanics, I think it's 37%. On the only 2018 data I've seen so far, Hispanics, 56 natives, I know they're over 60. So when you look at why black communities or poor white communities have a lot of these issues. The most obvious answer is the absence of fathers. Yeah, I remember I was talking with a black buddy of mine, middle class black buddy, about literally in one of the neighborhoods we used to live in. And he said, Well, there's not a lot of little league, that kids don't play baseball. And I said, Why don't they play baseball, you know, don't play basketball, and they just pick up some bats. And he said, Well, with who? referring to the total absence of fathers uncles that were really in the scene, even big brothers that are out but are not in jail, for example, or at work. And that's a valid point. And that's why for American struggle, you can't get through a 74%. illegitimacy, right. So yeah, I think it's primarily cultural, almost entirely cultural. If you take a look at almost anything. Well, I'll simplify this into one sense. JOHN McWhorter, qualitative writer, but good one, he's on the black guys on blogging heads TV, and a book called losing the race. What said that there seemed to be four things that if you adjust for close the Black White IQ and crime death. Those were father in the home, number of hours of TV watched every day, the grades demanded by your parents, and the number of books in your house. And those are almost entirely cultural variables except for books. None of them has anything to do with IQ in the PhD sense. They're things that you can teach your kids, anyone can slap their kid on the head and say work harder in class. The question is Who does? Yeah, Asians?
Unknown Speaker 40:29
There's an answer like,
Pete Turner 40:30
well, and also, was it what country in Africa was just shocking in their standout nature of their genius levels? Nigeria, Nigeria. Yeah, I want to get into that in a second. One of the things I've I don't know if you're familiar with do the Judith rich Harris's book The nurture assumption, by the way they do. Have you heard about this.
Unknown Speaker 40:54
I'm very familiar with the nature nurture debate and also with the fact that although nurture does have an impact? It's not what is traditionally been thought. Its friend group, its public libraries. It's not really your parents as long as they don't abuse you. But I haven't read this particular book. No, it is,
Pete Turner 41:10
it is the book, it is the one that started what you just said all of that stuff where, yes, you can fuck your kid up. But if you think you can mold your kid into something that's repeatable, will then do what's in your own family group and do it for time to do for kids. And you'll instantly see the problem look big, you know, you love them, you care for them, but there are so many other factors by the time you wash all that stuff out that they no room left for Mom and Dad, you know, but you can abandon your kid, you can, you know, be so drug addled that they aren't raised properly, you can definitely fuck them up. When we put kids in that kind of an environment, you know, and and the cultural part is really left up to their own devices. There is no guide to kind of teach norms and mores and those kind of things. Are we? Are we post norm? You know, like all like all this stuff with the transgender? And all of these, you're trying to bring that part of the conversation because I know you talk a little bit about it. Are we so internally meta focused that we are losing touch with what is okay, day to day in society?
Unknown Speaker 42:22
No, I don't think so. I think that there's a tendency among both the rich and the poor to shit on the petite bourgeois. Uh huh. Um, I grew up in a poor neighborhood. I mean, East Aurora in the 1990s, you know, inner city, Chicago at that time. I mean, these were globally known violent areas, and people would mock mainstream suburbanites is basically prey. There's not any other way to describe it. They can't defend themselves. They're not good in bed, they can't dance. They're the things we hunt. And I've seen that same attitude among the rich. I've seen it interestingly also amongst soldiers describing civilians, but There's a sheepdog element to it as opposed to wolf. Yeah, it's like we've got to protect the poor useless Willies not like we'll just tear them apart. But I mean, I think there's a tendency to mock bourgeois norms like no, not in my mouth, among rich people and poor people. Yeah. And I think that right now, we're in the midst of a cultural climate where upper middle class predatory people are glorifying the behavior of lower middle class predatory people. But I think that in general norms do survive among most people, the marriage rate in the American middle class is still very high. And I also think that norms survive among the people on the left who are saying they shouldn't. This is one of those things that's absolutely stunning. If you look at the data, yeah, the percentage of people that go to the most left wing flamboyant schools, Berkeley Brown, that go on to get married to a reasonably stable heterosexual monogamous person is astonishingly high. It's over 90% every time I've seen the data breakdown I think that most people, most successful Americans understand that there are things completing high school, completing college, getting a job and working it until you get a career so and they're going to produce success. Um, I think that what you have is a weird kind of cultural cancer where people that know this are telling people that don't necessarily know it, that it's not true. And I think that's very problematic. I don't think that there are too many upper middle class brown graduates that are sending their three year old unsupervised to drag queen story hour, right. That's not a thing that occurs. But I do think that we have a less serious problem than what you described, but still a serious one, which is the promotion of total immorality by people that don't believe it. Right? This actually, like I tend to ramble. So last comment for me on this one, but I mean, I noticed that when I went to an urban public school, and I hadn't been sheltered, I mean, I knew how to fight and cook simple food and so on, but I hadn't really been exposed to the culture too much. My mom was God, my cousins are good. I was somewhat protected. When I first went to an urban public school, my one of my initial reactions I still remember was these people think it's cool to be evil. It was a very strong impression. Like people think it's cool to cheat on their girlfriend, people think it's cool to not act like they like their parents. People are acting like they're much more sexual and violent than they are. Why? Hmm, and I do think that that is reflective of the fact that what you teach people through a venue like primetime television impacts how they behave. So we do need to look at the content that content creators are creating. Why this?
Pete Turner 45:37
Yeah, interesting. Okay, let me and I want to I want to get away from the urban black violence thing here, but I do want to bring up this point cuz I was thinking about this while you were talking. The point before I got this project I'm working on called the prison Chronicles and it's coming out really soon. And basically, it asked this question if most murderers who are in prison get out of jail What condition Do you want them in when they walk out the door? And if I added a part B to this question, if I told you that they walk out with less than 1000, most likely 200 ish dollars, would you be stoked for their chances of being a contributing member of society Two years later, you know, like, this is this is the premise. And so we talked to a guy who was convicted of murder and spent a lot of time in jail. well over a third of it in solitary confinement. And he said, think about me and my family growing up in Detroit, we brought Detroit brilliance made me think of it. And the presence of PTSD. He talked about getting off the axe. Everyone he knew and his family had been shot, his brother had shot his other brother, he had been shot himself, everyone he knew had been shot, and most everyone if not everyone that was going to or had already been in the correctional facility. So if, if PTSD affects me because I'm in combat, and all this uncertainty and my cortisol pathways are all blown out, because I'm always going Dawn, how is that not true for a bunch of black dudes? And then if I get special, you know, consideration in court, even though we pay a higher price when we get convicted, if I go through a special veterans court because hey, this is a different case. Is that something that we need to account for it? You know, that there's the political scientists? And you say, yeah, you know, what, maybe? Or is there a different path to this? Because it sure seems like an inequity to me that, that someone can experience all that trauma, and we don't expect them to have, you know, significant problems making good choices and with anger.
Unknown Speaker 47:33
Well, I think that's an excellent question. I think there are different levels. First of all, I do think that being a combat soldier is something distinctive. I mean, I've had people shoot at me basically discharged guns at places where I was, and I don't think I have PTSD. I mean, my understanding of the literature on this is that there is shell shock is a real concept. There is certain sustained hyper high level violence, how it starts mortar on up shells coming at you for a consistent period of time that produces that always triggered effect. So I don't think that the average urban guy, the black or otherwise would necessarily qualify as having PTSD, then that's that's almost a personal sideline for me because I don't like the over diagnosis of mental ailments, okay? Um, if I went to a modern psychologist and just told the truth, I would almost certainly be diagnosed as a clinical sociopath with a DD OCD, mild PTSD and a bunch of other crap and I'd be given a bunch of zombie drugs for the rest of my life. Um, I think that this is bad. And I think it's true for most Americans. I don't think I'm crazy. Um, I think you for that matter. I'm not a doctor. But I've definitely had some legitimately traumatizing experiences, but you still seem extremely high functioning, whether or not medication might individually help someone with that. So no, I don't think every guy in the hood has PTSD. I do think that obviously, is there's the old line, never Do an enemy a small injury. Obviously, if we're not just going to kill people who commit serious crimes, which in many cases rape, I would not have a problem with. If we're not going to do that, then yeah, we need to give these guys after some brutal early years when they're locked up. The rest of that time needs to be spent rehabbing them so they can be functional citizens. And right now we're in kind of a gray area where we don't just have the hangman's noose anymore. We can have 100% success rate. But we also don't have sweetest style rehab programs. It's on jails, basically just Gladiator school. If you throw someone into anything but the best run prisons and virtually all the local county jails, they're going to be people trying to fight you people trying to buy or steal your food. people sitting on the bottom of the bunk shirtless playing cards. It's not going to be an environment that prepares you for anything beyond going back to jail. So yeah, just basic things like mandating that prisoners have to be paid $1 for every hour they work. For example, It's currently about 20 cents hmm mandating that they get paid a buck and half of that goes into savings would do an incredible amount of good for these guys. You get out with $14,000 not 200. Right? They don't even give you a suit anymore when you get out of prison. Okay, good. I went through a phase in my life where I took Amtrak trains across the country to see girls that I dated to see bodies to travel. And a lot of the people on the trains are people have just gotten out of prison, which is funny and it wasn't a threat to me, but it certainly like Mormon women and so on work too excited about it, but they give you a pair of cloth, thin gray sweat pants, they give you a white t shirt, they give you a surprisingly nice pair of Nikes and they put you on a bus, they give you enough money to get to your home destination. But they don't always give you two tickets. Sometimes you have to buy one at the bus stations. If you spend some of that money. You're just at the bus station. Like Yes, of course. You're doing that you are making it more difficult for people to succeed. Yeah.
Pete Turner 50:55
Yeah, it's a you know, it is that what we want as a society you know? No, it's it's hard question and a different show. Let's stay on the taboo topic. So let's talk a little bit more specifically about IQ. We've kind of kicked it around a little bit, but IQ tests the IQ gap, and you're saying that once you account for three ish deforest variables, that gap is reliably gone. And And what about the whole thought of anybody below saying 85 IQ is, you know, basically a functioning idiot? And I mean, the technical definition of idiot, not the put it down.
Unknown Speaker 51:30
I think there's a difference. I think there's a difference between IQ and tested IQ. Okay, so, first of all, I would analogize iq to physical fitness not to height. So growing up in the hood, I had a tested IQ of 108. When I went to an elite law school, I had a tested IQ of 167. Now my tested IQ is about 143. I'm still competitive, but it's not like you have I lost sections. See, study prep every day. I consider myself a geek in some way. ways but when I'm home, I watch ESPN or cook, I don't take IQ tests, oh, we're just something we did for practice in law school. So I mean, that that's notable, the, the gap between my lowest and highest IQ is 59 points, which is itself most of a human IQ. So again, when someone tests on a standard IQ board, unless you're doing the full culture fair five hours with the blocks, I think what you're looking at at a given time is how aware they are of functional post High School American culture, not really what their potential intelligence is. Someone wants told me, this was a buddy from I think, Indonesia, and he did very poorly at an American IQ test because their struggles with the language, but in his home country was about 140. What he told me was that you have to understand Tarzan or Mowgli, the legendary, you know, semi historical figures would have gotten a zero on one of these tests just because they didn't speak colloquial written English, right? So all that is the preset. That said, I think IQ testing is very useful. It says how well qualified you are for normal again, middle class life in a modern society, we're not going to stop using the tests. The essay T and the AC t are also almost pure IQ tests, you can almost put 100 in front of your AC t score and get something quite close to your IQ. So when you talk about the IQ gap, oh, that's probably more grad student mythology than anything else. But I'm sure there's a very close correlation between a B and an IQ 90% correlation between sa T and IQ I know. But anyway, what do you talk about the IQ gap right now there are IQ gaps between the major ethnic groups This is not controversial. If you look at the latest writing about this by the audacious fo God For example, who by the way is on the far almost dissident, right. Um, so this is not a leftist, arguing that we're doing extremely well. But the black IQ is risen to about 93 there's a Paper Dickens and Flan 2006. It breaks down exactly what the black eyed kids are for each age cohort. So we're let's say 9293. Whites are at 99. Asian seem to be at about 102 natives are a little under blacks. Hispanics are right around a little over blacks. So it is undisputed that these IQ gaps exist. The question is why they do. And the big thing on the alt right is the claim that this is purely genetic. I find that really, really unlikely. And a big part of that is that I'm a tom Stoll kind of center right business conservative. I've read all souls books and all the responses to him. And I mean, if you look at history, it's extremely common that IQ is for large populations jumped by 15 or 20 points. When you adjust for a simple variable like the one I just used fatherlessness. So in race and culture page 160. This isn't very controversial. So breaks down how different ethnic groups did on the army alpha basic tests that were used in World War One and World War Two and the civilian equivalents. And as I recall Italians, Irish men, Greeks, Slovenes, the Portuguese Serbs so on down the line got under an 85. All these groups tested at the same level as or below African Americans. Now all these groups test at the National normal all between 97 and 102. And blacks themselves have increased their IQ by eight to 10 points. So, to me, there's a winning culturalist argument for IQ. It's just obvious that if you go to third world countries in Eastern Europe or Africa, people aren't going to do as well in a math test as they will in Los Angeles. Um, as with a lot of other things, from height to penis size to running speed, there might be some three or 4% group differences. But obviously, the amount of time you spend with books really predicts how you're going to do on most tests. Again, the issue in black community is there's less of a focus on education generally there fewer father's on down the line. Black immigrants do very well. Of course.
Pete Turner 56:04
That's Yeah. See this where you think you have your hands wrapped around something, you get that thrown at you? Yeah. Just makes me rub my head. Black in black immigrants across the board. I mean, that's a big population. That's pretty diverse too. Does that include nikitos from Filipinos? You know, that kind of thing? Or?
Unknown Speaker 56:27
I think that that's a great question in terms of like, what are these words? Even me? Yes. If someone says black or Asian is Asians, the one that does this for me, Oh, my God says, Well, some Asians underperform whites and other Asians smoke everybody. The first response I have is, well, a lot of those Asians are different races. Yeah. How many talking about like black drive ins from India versus people from Japan? You know, Asia is a very big place, right? Yeah, it's the other half of the world except for Africa. So I mean, anyway, I'm large but No, by black I mean, I guess, more than 50% bond to or Ethiopia, Africa, like there really are definitions for the races. Okay, we really do know what East and West African Black people are. So the whole idea that race is a cultural construct is pretty silly. Yeah, if you took an actual Ethiopian or Nigerian Lord and told him he was white, he would laugh himself silly. It's, that's something that goes on in our academia, not in real life. But I mean, black immigrants in general. And we don't have a very selective immigration system by any means. So that this, that's not the reason for it. Whether you're talking about West Indians, Nigerians Ghanaians, they do extremely well. Nigerians are the group in the USA, most likely to have PhDs. And this holds true for their children. There's no quote unquote regression to the mean. So again, I think what we see is that if you take reasonably selected people good enough to get through a basic immigration process, and you maintain basically stable variables like a father, and you look at something like IQ scores or rates of criminal offense They're going to be very similar. That's my basic point on race. If someone took some technical issue and said, well, aren't whites better swimmers? they evolved near water. They hold all the swimming records, maybe. But I mean, if you look at broadly, who's going to make a varsity football team, it's going to be a pretty diverse range of guys. You know, and that, that's my general take on race. Yeah,
Pete Turner 58:21
I think when you get so let me ask you this question real quick to not not to pin you on something. But is IQ heritable?
Unknown Speaker 58:28
Yeah, of course. I mean, it's the so all of this is kind of, Okay, first of all, again, sorry, man, Tarzan. If you look at the mythological series of books, Tarzan, Russia's based to some extent on real humans raised by apes and wolves and so on. Tarzan, the character is Lord grey stroke from England. So I'm not saying Tarzan obviously is a real person is taking IQ test. Right. But if you took the gray stroke, Jim's that family average IQ probably hundred 25. That's typical for upper class and breadth Tarzan's would be zero because Tarzan was raised by apes. I think this Tarzan analogy is a good one I sometimes use in classes. So IQ is obviously not 100% heritable, right, of course, you find is that if you take people and raise them under what I believe was Jensen called any reasonable circumstances, I don't agree with some of his conclusions about race, but a good scholar in this field, under any reasonable circumstances IQ is about 60 to 70% heritable. That is, if my baseline IQ is 140, and you took me and you raised me in any situation from a peasant field to the rajas Palace in Jaipur, my IQ would be between point six of 140 and maybe like 1.05 of hundred 40. That's that's what IQ is. The response to that though, is that 40% is larger than any IQ gap that exists among humans today, right? I eat if you take an American white at 100 and an American black at 92. That's an 8% gap could an 8% gap be due to Cultural variables. Yeah, I would in fact predict that if you take just black people with fathers in the house, you've got an average IQ of about 97. That might be one of my next papers and hasn't been done as far as I can tell. So I mean, again, race Israel, it's just silly to say Kenyans aren't good distance runners or something like that, right? It's a little more complex than we tend to think. If you talk to an organization like 23, and may, it's not that there exists Caucasians, and then All Blacks and then Easterners or something, there are about 50 different fractal regional populations that combine into seven large ones, amaranth and so on down the line. But raise it that level is real. There probably are some small to moderate differences between racial groups. But I don't think that in the same society IQ seems to be one of them to a massive extent. If you look at Britain's data right now, that I mean, that's the violence but they're pretty race. The populations 10% black and Asian reasonably assimilated by our standards. I think their average IQ is as I recall for Asians, 102 people who are multiracial, white and black 99. I mean, so you just when you see these huge gaps between America and either Chechnya or Rwanda, you need to adjust to what's going on in Chechnya or Rwanda before you can really make a fair comparison. Yeah, IQ itself is heavily heritable. 60% Plus, yeah,
Pete Turner 1:01:24
at least like and talk about a taboo topic to set just to say that you know, and it's almost like you're bound to be in Flynn's camp or in Marie's camp and and in either way, you're a horrible evil asshole night, see, you know, Jew hater or whatever. No, I'm just trying to have an academic conversation about something that we struggle to nail down like that defining culture. Go ask 100 people and you get 300 definitions, you know. Let's get back into the race part of this then because you're bringing up some some fantastic points. I mean, Asia, there's people in Oman that are Asian. There are black dudes who will look you in the face and say I am white. Who are Asians in Turkey? You know, it's dude, race is crazy when people say all white people, you know, I know you and I've discussed this in the past but but what the fuck is white people? You know
wil reilly 1:02:21
what this again? Sorry, gone? No, no,
Pete Turner 1:02:24
I was just going to bring in how like, by the way, you know those those I'm gonna say Arabs because I'm not going to be too specific because that's the whole point. Arabs are white Jesus was white Jews and and a lot of Arabs you know at least the Middle Eastern Arabs that the same people you know racially so let's understand that what we understand about race colloquially colloquially is not all that crystal clear.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
This is one of the bit and I don't want to keep going back to debates I've had a couple of years ago. So in fact, I'll stop doing that and just make this one sentence. This is another big problem with kind of the dissident, right? Um, race is different from ethnicity one, and being white is different from being Caucasian to right. So from what I've learned from 23andme there are in addition to unassign, which just means highly mixed there about six human racial populations, one is European Caucasian, one is West Asian Caucasian, which is Arabs and such which is virtually identical. The European Caucasian, one is East Asian and Native American. One is but two black West African Black. Think Another one is North African and East African Black. That's a little different Somalia and so on. Um, and I honestly forget what the other one would be. I don't want to make it up. But anyway, there so there are specific racial populations. And you can find these just by googling 23andme Regional groups or 23 and me source groups. So in fact, I don't think most scholars are too confused as to what race is. I think most people could look at saying Afghan and say, Well, that's a West Asian, Caucasian. If they recognize race at all, there is some dispute around that because of past interbreeding. Um, I think that the issues that are in conflict come up when people start trying to create racial identities that don't match the real haha. The idea of white in America basically means Northern European, non Muslim cockade. Yeah, the problem with this is that there's no difference between northern European non Muslim Caucasians and Northern European Muslim Caucasians like Chechens, there's not much difference between northern European and Southern European, Caucasian, all of these groups and this is an estimate but vary by maybe two or 3% in terms of even those differences that do vary with rates. So I mean, in a sentence, if you are arguing for white supremacy, what you would have to show is that Caucasians overall, do better than kind of the other major serious racial groups like West African blacks or Asians. And that's a Very difficult to do, because the actual Caucasian group includes the Middle East. So it includes the most violent Arab and Persian countries, Iraq, Iran, Palestine, all those people are 100% genetically Caucasian, to the point where you said Jesus was white. And I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. I mean, it's all Caucasians, right? And that includes what I might literally think of is boron country. I mean, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, all that Tajikistan as some Asians, but all those countries, 90 plus percent hablo, typically Caucasian, Eastern Europe. So you're talking about Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, all those countries Caucasian. So if you look at all of the Caucasians, you don't necessarily see global stellar performance. You know, wonderful people, just as we all are, but no one's going to take a summer vacation in Palestine. Right. So you can't just separate the successful Caucasians economically, from the other Caucasians and say, Well, this is a different group. I mean, it'd be very easy for blacks to do the same thing. I mean, I could point to all tropical paradise is in the world. I mean, Bermuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Botswana, Brazil will give you it's about 50%, black, you know someone down the line and say, Well, these are, you know, St. Kitts and Nevis average income 40,000 per year, I could say, well, these are the real black people. Those people in Africa, those are negros. We don't claim them. There would be the same kind of meaningless statement as me saying, well, Germany is wonderful. So white power, all Someone has to says, What about Albania? hos, you know, so in general, some mild racial differences probably. Do we see massive gaps among people of different races in the same society? not usually, no. But I mean, one thing that's interesting about this also, you said whether you're in Marie's camp or Flynn's camp, you're going to be called a Nazi. And that's correct. Yeah. If you recognize that IQ exists at all, and modern science you're seeing is saying something very radical. So when I say there's an eight or nine point black white IQ gap, but come down that's cultural people will then very often attack me and say, Are you saying black culture is inadequate? You Uncle Tom monster. And at some point, you have to be able to say, look, it's good to have a dad. You know, it's not ideal that half of blacks are poor whites or whatever, don't have fathers 70% of us. That's not good. So I mean, but even that is becoming increasingly contested in the same way that the statement men are women is becoming increasingly contested. Yeah.
Pete Turner 1:07:27
Yeah, good grief, the gender thing. Is it possible that 10 years from now we're going to find out that gender is not simply tied to an X Y chromosome value and that there is a Batman I think there's there's doctors at Stanford that are working on this very thing and understanding, you know, what does create a gender identity goes beyond just that thing is that is that irrational to think that we're going to slide off of x, y, and that's it. I mean, because we already know there's x x x x x x, there's X X Y chromosome combinations. Granted, they're exceptionally rare, but those exist
Unknown Speaker 1:08:00
Think all those people are intersects I mean, it's very predictable. Like I can tell you what an x x y person would look like, right in terms of there be some feminine characteristics, but this is the primary like, those are intersex individuals, okay? I think in general they're two different things. One gender may well be a matter of personal self definition. Sex isn't okay. So it's very easy to define a female. As a person, I may not be exactly right about what a three x y would look like. I encourage people to look that up on their own, but it's very easy to define a female as a person with an all X chromosome will order let's say a non intersex person with an all X chromosome will order that's all the females that's removed all the non x x or x x plus Yeah, intersex person with an all X X chromosome order that in 99.9997% of cases manifest itself in a self lubricating vagina, lactating breast, I mean, you want to be PG here, but that's what a woman is. is similarly for a male, a person with an x y or x y Y chromosome will order that in 99% of cases manifests itself in a penis and external testicles. 100% of males have an extended hyoid bone, a newly occluded prostate. I mean, we're getting extremely wonky here, but we know what sex is. The question really, the question is, is there something called gender that's different from sex? Right? That's it. That is an interesting question. But even if you say yes, and I might say yes, that if you I've seen people in essentially drag outfits and unexpected situations I overseas or on the south side of Chicago, and it takes a while to process what sex they actually are, because of a variety of cultural cues. It's not hard in some societies, as you probably seen for women to imitate men in terms of dress. So is someone who has a brain more typical of the opposite sex, who is putting on the clothing and accoutrements of the opposite sex, who is homosexual? And who wants to be seen as a member of the opposite sex? Is it fair to say that their gender is a little different from their sex? I don't really have a huge problem with that, frankly. I mean, going back to Rome, they call this the feminist movement or the two sold movement, natives use that same term to spirit. Um, so I don't have a problem with that. The issue with that though, is that it doesn't change your sex at all. This has to be understood. So if you are fully transgender, I want to be seen as a woman you dress as a woman You look like a woman because of cultural cues. But you have a 10 inch penis. I'd be really question I really question you playing girls varsity sports? I mean, is that going to be the best thing if you decide you want to hook up in the locker room? Is that going to be the best thing for that matter out on the court? When you're dominating five for female small forwards? No, because biologically, you're a man. There's certain things that just kind of suck. If you have the mental condition of gender dysphoria, and you believe that You are and that's what transgenderism is it's a recognized mild mental illness. There's no dispute about this in science really, if you have this mental condition and you honorably believe yourself to be a woman, but you're a man, biologically, that's going to cause you a lot of problems, but we can't necessarily treat you by saying you're a biological woman.
Pete Turner 1:11:19
Yeah, and and the whole sports thing is Boy, that's just you know, it is I don't want men knocking out women, not not because of some kind of violence thing, but just, it's not an even fight. That's why we don't let you know 125 pound guys fight against 225 pound guys, there's, there's a difference in how they're built in their ability to apply force. Is there any other taboo you want to cover real quick? I mean, I know we've been through sort of a survey of a lot of them, but I want to make sure I give you a chance to expand on any of them that we haven't
Unknown Speaker 1:11:52
covered. Well, so we've talked about race and IQ. That's one of the chapters we've talked about. Black Lives Matter. That's one of the chapters I guess one of the other chapters that comes to my mind, there's one chapter where I say whiteness isn't the only privilege and cultural appropriation isn't even real. I think that's fairly important. Yeah, I'll try to grab my natural urge to babble. But essentially, if you take any competently done survey of privilege, you have 100 questions that go from, you know, do you know what frequent flyer miles are? Have you ever been beaten up by more than two people and you go down through all these items, summer job, if you administer that to people, you find that with everything else adjusted for whites do about three points better than blacks. So there is white privilege in the sense that if you take two identical guys, University of Michigan 2.8 GPA 510 and you send them out to apply for jobs, the white guy is going to do a little better. Um, but what you find if you look at something like this is that a ton of things matter way more than race, about 60% of privileges just social class. So how well off you and your parents are The huge majority predictor of how easier life is going to be. We find people that have done this, including me, although not yet in the final version of the survey, but people that have done this fine that being gay has more of a negative impact on your life than being black. being fat has more of a negative impact on your life than being a member of any race who's fit. So it is being extremely short for men birth order, I mean, so you can go through all this stuff. Basically, white privilege is a univariant idea. All you're saying is that whites have an advantage over blacks. That's true. Overall, on average, it's not true for most individuals. When you encounter a particular guy, you have no idea whether his father just died of cancer. So that's white privilege. cultural appropriation is just a dumb ass idea. Yeah, I don't see how anyone could take this seriously. The basic idea is just that you should not do things that were invented by a group you once oppressed or award with. But that's everything. Yeah, I mean, that would include us Westerners eating sushi. Japanese businessmen would have trade their suits in for komodos and swords. I mean, this sounds kind of ridiculous, but it is accurate the numerals we use, we borrowed from the Arabs, we fight the Arabs every five years. I mean, so the idea they would have to give up cars which Westerners invented, go back to ships of the desert. So the basic idea that you can't do something an enemy once did is ridiculous. That's kind of one of the closing lines that I plan to use from the book and interviews. But I've got all told about 10 of these chapters. One is that the alt right doesn't have much to offer either. A striking back at that graper hard right movement that's growing on the right. You know, I've got a chapter about immigration where the taboo is we don't have to take immigrants, we should take in only people that are saying non criminal, reasonably able bodied and healthy and able to pass basic IQ boards. That chapter got the most resistance from people that read it. So there are a few of them, but I would close with you can learn anything from anyone. Yeah, no cultural appropriation. Nobody white privilege.
Pete Turner 1:15:00
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that what you're talking about in terms of immigration and and I've been saying this for a while, not that I'm the smartest guy in the world, but if Congress has a problem with immigration that Congress has a congress problem, you know, this is, this is their job to fix. And I agree with you. I look, my, my favorite American is the next one. I want people to come here. I love it. They give up their homeland, and come here to be part of what we're doing. I think it's the best thing ever. I also don't mind having a wall and saying anybody who wants to come in, we'd like to know who you are. Make sure you're healthy. You know, maybe run a background check. And if you are a criminal, hey, let's figure out how to get you into a system so we can make sure you do well, you know, because I'll tell you what. JACK Barsky was an embedded agent from the KGB living in the Americas. The series Americans he advises on that thing, and he made so much money as a computer software guy. He's like fuck Being a spy. I want to be an American. So here's a guy that's supposed to know the guy that that opened up world war two for us with Japan, that guy ended up going, you know what, I don't hate America, I love I don't want to raise my kids there. So I'm all for that. But I also understand saying, let's understand who you are, what we're getting. And then also allowing us to say, you know what, no, thanks, you got to go somewhere else. And that's, that to me, is reasonable. It's not racist. I, you know, we, we want immigration, we're all about it. But you have to have some control. Nobody just lets anybody into their house. You know, it's crazy.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:41
That's exactly right. I mean, what we've seen in recent years by the right to some extent, but more often by the left is the redefinition of just common sense terms like races, right. I mean, in the current Democratic primary election, I've actually voted democrat more often than Republican in my life. But I mean, people are saying things that strike me as just crazy. Julio Castro at one point just said, Well, why don't we get rid of ss 3175? And if you look at that that's the law that makes the illegal immigration illegal. Makes it criminal. It would be a technical civil violation if we got rid of that. Right. So there's now an open argument. Why don't we just open the borders because we are such a bad racist country. We shouldn't keep anyone out. We need to change ourselves overnight. And I think that's a crazy idea. I mean, obviously, yes. nations have a right to regulate who enters the country. Without Borders. Technically speaking, you don't have a country. So yeah, we can decide who we want to have come in. We could put a total moratorium on immigration for 10 years. Yeah, that wouldn't be racist at all. It would black European communist cheese eaters. It would black our neighbors from south of the border and black people from the rising powers of Africa. It's a moratorium, could you do it all the time. So we can do whatever we want in terms of our immigration policy. And that's a point I make, there's no real need to listen to. The murmurings of a few fanatics as though they're gospel in any sense of that word. So, I mean, each chapter goes through one of these things. But yeah, I totally agree. We need to vet who we let in the house. We don't necessarily do a great job of that. I mean, it's a it's an inspiring story that the spy you're describing, deciding want to be an American, we probably should have a system that prevents spies from coming in and just spying for 20 years before they have a change of heart. Right.
Pete Turner 1:18:25
Yeah, and at least try to prevent that guy from doing it. And yeah, look, you've been we've been talking for over an hour, and it's just great. The book is fantastic. It's a talks about these taboo topics, and will is written just a hell of a book. And there's a few jokes in there along the way, which I appreciate it. And if it matters to you at all. I read it. I read a lot of books through the year. This was one of my favorites. It's a book I've always wanted to read. And I'm glad someone finally had the courage to write it. I think it's exact. I think it's great critique that people are breaking Their brains on the immigration portion, it means you're doing exactly what you set out to do. You're bringing the taboo topic in. And again you unseated me in I don't know a couple of dozen times from my god damn it, I don't know shit about shit, you know, and now I gotta reassess who I am and look, I always say all the time to intolerance is a human very like a natural thing. We're just intolerant as a norm and then the evolved person goes Hold on, you know, I need to actually create space for this doesn't mean that I like child molesters, but they exist and and we got to deal with them. You can't just say I don't tolerate them. Well, good, that doesn't do anything. You know, you have to deal with these things and have an evolved position. So anyhow, all that yammering on I just want to thank you, man for writing that book. I know it's it's not easy, and I'm sure you enjoyed it. But we need more books like this. We need to have more of these conversations so we can all calm the fuck down. act locally, you know you want to change the whole goddamn governor From the top, why don't you just go get involved volunteer on that committee that has open seats and has every committee I know and small government hasn't at large thing because they want you to participate. And that chair was always empty. So go get fucking involved. If you want to change something, read wills book, you will learn something and you will enjoy it. Well, any last words?
Unknown Speaker 1:20:19
I'm noting No, not well, actually, I guess one of the things you just said about local politics is something I always say. People ask me, What can I do to get involved in terms of these ideas? Same center right. Often political principles, the local level run for alderman man. Yeah, I mean, it's extremely easy to get involved in this is actually a problem in America, we've seen the collapse of that social fabric, where most people used to play a varsity sport for their high school, then join the army, come home, go to church, join the Elks club run for office. Now people do none of those things would become isolated consumers. This doesn't have anything to do with race or class or whatever. It's something anyone can fix on their own. It's a huge problem. So if you don't like the society, run for office and change it Yeah,
Pete Turner 1:21:00
yeah. Oh, this goes back to Kennedy. And it's hilarious that the left is so guilty of this now, but they're all asking what their country can do for them. And and you know, here's the icon saying that's wrong, you know, we've got to be and if you don't like what's going on, get it get to work and guess what? That's it's hard. It's sucks. And you have to cooperate with your neighbor who you don't know. And they disagree with you vehemently. But you have to do it. If you want to make a difference than y'all all of a sudden you understand how hard it is to nudge the dial a little bit. Anyhow, I'm going to keep on yakking. Thanks so much for coming on, man. Half a happy holiday and really seriously, thank you so much.
wil reilly 1:21:36
Always good talking to you, man. Have a good day. Peace